Line Manager just "come out" as Non-binary

Is it really that big a deal to call the person how they want to be called?

Its not a huge effort on your part, doesn't cost you anything so just go with it.

I think call people what they want to be called. My children use shortened version of their birth names but I’m always so grateful when doctors or teachers use their preferred names.I’m happy to go with whatever name or pronoun suits the wearer. It doesn’t change biology but if it makes them more comfortable

That can only work in certain and very limited ways, though. Name and identity are not fixed or immutable things. Our identities shift and change throughout a life-time, and take on many subtle adaptations.

I have used several variations of my name/different names throughout my life - according to how I felt at particular times. Some older friends know and refer to me as one name, while other more recent friends and associates refer to me by another. I have no desire or right to impose on anyone something which does not feel right or comfortable to them, and I would never demand that. Relationships are social and therefore mutual.We are all multifaceted people with histories - and our 'identities' are flexible to some extent because they are socially constructed and negotiated.

Biological sex is not an identity; it is just a fact of life - universally applicable and acknowledged.This is one of the aspects of a person which is immutable; like genetic heritage; like race.... The idea of a 'gender identity' is entirely something that has meaning only for an individual - and certainly if this identity is in opposition to one's observable biological sex.

Some friends and associates may decide they are happy to indulge you in this role play and identity - and that is up to them........but nobody goes around the world attempting to police and enforce correct names or titles - unless terribly insecure or, to an extent, mentally unbalanced.One's felt identity is something private and interior, and if one is secure in one's self then there is no need to control how other people respond to or perceive you.

Funnily enough I received an email this morning from my daughter who is a bit of a Shakespeare obsessive:

Hazlitt famously remarked, "We are Hamlet". It is a pleasant thought – the thought that an invisible audience somewhere has access to, and applauds and validates, our every passing thought. A less pleasing idea, but perhaps a more accurate one, is that we are not Hamlet. We are Coriolanus ( Coriolanus constructed his identity and pride on a false sense of security. He tried to defend the indefensible)

When in an, admittedly very bitter, dispute with Gregor Murray, who alleged that they had been misgendered by the Claimant, rather than seeking to accommodate Gregor Murrays legitimate wishes she stated: “I had simply forgotten that this man demands to be referred to by the plural pronouns “they” and “them”, “Murray also calls it “transphobic” that I recognise a man when I see one. I disagree”, “In reality Murray is a man. It is Murray’s right to believe that Murray is not a man, but Murray cannot compel others to believe this.” and that “I reserve the right to use the pronouns “he” and “him” to refer to male people. While I may choose to use alternative pronouns as a courtesy, no one has the right to compel others to make statements they do not believe.”
90. I conclude from this, and the totality of the evidence, that the Claimant is absolutist in her view of sex and it is a core component of her belief that she will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment. The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic society.

This is the judge’s take. A reminder, Maya didn’t even work with Murray. The judge ruled it was fair for Maya to be sacked for talking about someone who didn’t even work where she did, because people who she does work with might get offended by that.

This is where the problem the OP has leads. If you don’t toe the line and agree to have your speech compelled, you can use your job.

I find it totalitarian, and most totalitarian problems start with people shrugging their shoulders going “so what? Doesn’t bother me too much.”

Maya Forstater apparently misgendered that person by using a male pronoun. Maya does not work with Murray. Maya’s misgendering was complained about by a person who also doesn’t work with Maya. As a result of this, Maya lost her job.

It's misleading to claim that Maya lost her job because of a single instance of misgendering. The case involved a long series of tweets expressing her philosophies, and her position that she reserved the right to misgender people in accordance with her own beliefs.

I'm proud of em is going to get a bit confusing though is there's an Emma in the office, who hasn't done anything special. Or someone from Essex who is simply saying, "I'm proud of 'em!" about the whole team.

I'm liking My pronouns are: //

Eck Aren't a lot of people on this board women?. Is that not hugely offensive.... How do Eck know how people on this board identify?

Does Perself promise to help me with my washing?

Wait, there's more... perself! Humself! Make up your own, go for it....

It costs me a lot to refer to a singular person with the plural pronoun they, trust me. Thats why I would use Angela throughout.

They/them/theirs pronoun people make me thing of some sort of creepy hive mind collective cult, so I'd probably refer to them as 7 of 9 in my own head.

Can we all just concentrate on helping the OP come up with a solution?

I find it odd you'd refer to anyone as 'she' in an email.. surely you'd use a persons name?! Especially if they're in the trail themselves.

It costs nothing to respect people's wishes. If you worked where I do, then yes, there are guidelines in our policies. Nothing enforceable but it's definitely something the organisation thinks about.

TheMemoryLingers

I linked that article because it’s the first article that comes up on Google to tell you who Gregor Murray is. The rest of the article isn’t particularly relevant. The article allows you to see who that person is. Maya Forstater apparently misgendered that person by using a male pronoun. Maya does not work with Murray. Maya’s misgendering was complained about by a person who also doesn’t work with Maya. As a result of this, Maya lost her job. This has set a legal precedent that even IF the OP misgenders only by accident, a random person could complain about it and the OP could lose her job as a result.

This is why involvement of managers and HR in workplace settings over the subject of misgendering and pronouns is not as simple as shrugging your shoulders and thinking it’s a benign part of the work environment at the moment.

Too many zees and zirs and you end up sounding like the chef from The Muppets.

Who actually came up with ve and ze, I wonder? And who the fuck are they, that they managed to insert it into the public consciousness?
Why are we allowing the lunatics to run the asylum?

@74NewStreet I didn't know that. I thought the thread was about the original post. Do you know of someone who has been sacked for misu-use of pronouns?

Come on how can you not find this hilariously ridiculous. People who cant speak English grammatically correctly to start with (they bought themself a coke) trying to make up completely new rules that nobody could actually use of follow (ze bought zerself a coke? ze bought hirself a coke? ze bought zerselves a coke?)

And for what purpose? Language is meant to evolve and change organically to increase understanding. Not to be forcibly mangled to prove how woke some pampered, privileged people without more pressing things to worry about are.

Are you being disingenuous now, Eckhart? You know fine well the threats and sacking do not relate to op’s particular situation.

NotBadConsidering The article you've linked describes the transgender person being dismissed, for, amongst other things, using the term "TERF" online. The councillor's claim of transphobia has been rejected. I'm not sure why you think this is an example of gender-neutral pronouns being inappropriate in the office.

You could say ‘he/she/it’. Let them pick the bones out of that.

Pronoun: he he

Did somebody get sacked or threatened with it? As I read it, OP wrote an email and copied management in, and Line manager responded, including a simple reminder of the pronouns (not a threat), continuing to copy the same people in.

Have I missed something that OP has mentioned about threats and sacking?

Also on Tuesdays my pronouns are meow, meowser, and meowself. Do try to remember or I'll be forced to give PC Gul a ring.

When people are getting sacked over someone else's silliness then it's time for it to stop. Pisstaking is a fine British tradition and an excellent way of venting one's irritation. How very odd that someone would get so het up about that!

That's fine, but remind me if I forget. There's a lot of people here, so I probably will at some point

How many times are you allowed to forget before we ask MNHQ to ban you? Should you get a number of official warnings first? Should there be a hearing before you are banned? Even if you do it accidentally but have been told repeatedly how everyone wants to be referred, should we be allowed to report you? If Her Highness Kittens isn’t on a thread but I see you refer to Her Highness as something else, can I report on Her Highness’s behalf?

Just need to know the framework we all need to work within now.
Thanks.

Aren't a lot of people on this board women? How does everybody manage to refer to each other without having a 2 way linguistic separation splitting us down the middle?