The Gift of Fear vs The Shark Cage

On dealing with stalkers I think De Becker is excellent, he's speaking from many years of professional experience.

I also have an excellent shark cage (came directly from my mum and dad) and I think it is an incredibly useful way of thinking about boundaries/expectations.

But I also like The Gift of Fear. I think his chapter on domestic violence (I HATE that expression btw - it is just violence) is influenced by his experience of being the powerless child in that situation.

I thought the stuff about pushing back when people go over your boundaries, saying no, listening to "instinct" since it usually based in actual observations, and not engaging with a stalker etc are excellent.

Since I seem to have failed female socialization (for which again I thank my mother), does this not create an instinctive "fuck off" reaction in most women? Being told to embrace discomfort and that my boundaries hurt people doesn't make me feel guilty or most willing to be compliant, it just a. pisses me off and b. makes me examine the motives of the person saying those things with a very suspicious eye.

You're not supposed to embrace discomfort. Like physical pain, one of the main reasons it's there is to tell you that something is wrong and you need to act on that.

The graphics in this thread are interesting - pretty much calling upon girls to suppress their fears about their own concerns/perceptions of safety and come out of the boundaries of their shark cage in order to be an ally to others.

twitter.com/unwitod/status/1225153425454837760

I think both are useful. The Shark Cage idea is less well known. I think it's because my mother was abused herself as a child that she built me one made of titanium.

(For those who're bound to come along to wring this hands about how sad it is that some women are afraid of men, I chose that phrasing for a reason. From my perspective my own personal shark cage isn't a burden at all, it's light and flexible and creates no discomfort at all. For me. For men seeking to harm me it creates a great deal of inconvenience.)

Forgot to add, the shark cage is a really good analogy. I had no boundaries as a young women because I thought I could fix everyone just by being kind and understanding. I had no idea that anyone would choose to exploit that.

There’s an interesting perspective from Captain Awkward on The Gift of Fear about it blaming victims.

“ The Gift of Fear comes with some big caveats around the Domestic Violence chapter, in that de Becker was raised by a mom who had a series of relationships with abusive men, and his language in that chapter crosses over into victim blaming. He both acknowledges the uselessness of restraining orders and the relative powerlessness of law enforcement in intimate partner violence situations, while also over-estimating the victim’s ability to choose to end the relationship safely or on a timeline that looks reasonable to him or to anyone outside the relationship. I know some people hate the book for this reason, but I find the rest of the book very useful because it’s one of the only resources out there that tells you what to DO about de-escalating situations with people who can’t let go. The workplace chapter, for example, is gold, as is the work on how to spot manipulation and boundary-testing (the search for people who are less likely to say no) and how to deal when you meet someone who gets fixated on you.”

I think the Shark Cage is a great analogy. It helps women understand why they behave the way they do without blaming them, and empowers them to make different choices in the future.

place marking as I have to go out, but briefly I think the shark cage has a lot going for it

MN actually had an almost identical thread a couple of years ago. It was where I first came across the "shark cage" concept. I do understand what you say about the Gift of Fear.