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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's Liberation 2020 - on Women's Hour today!

87 replies

ContessaferJones · 07/02/2020 09:25

DH gave me the heads up - it's on at 10am. Will see if I can tune in :)

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dymy

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womaninblue · 08/02/2020 15:33

Sophie Scott and Helen Joyce were wonderful and Jane Garvey enabled them to say pretty much what they wanted. It was great. I don't think there's much doubt that JG is pretty GC but feeling very handcuffed by the BBC. It's wonderful the way they've gone from Jenni Murray almost being sacked for expressing vaguely GC views to yesterday's Woman's Hour.

It was good to hear the ageism and the hatred of experienced and feminist older women in TRA ideology being called out. When TRAs have tried to enter the women's spaces I socialise in they very obviously try to avoid the old feminist bats like me and go straight for the impressionable younger women. Older women have a very important role to play.

JellyfishandShells · 08/02/2020 14:42

Just listened to that on catch up - open mouthed with astonishment that they were allowed to speak so freely , clearly and rationally ( though a little bit coded at times ). Hurrah !

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/02/2020 14:06

Just listened - that was really good! Interesting there'll be more about sex and gender to come too. Another moment that gives me a bit of hope that that the tide is turning.

NeurotrashWarrior · 08/02/2020 11:53

This is a great watch: Helen Joyce talking to Benjamin Boyce.

(Warning: very shiny cat catches mouse in first 3 minutes Confused)

MsTSwift · 08/02/2020 10:40

Made me so happy listening to that. And jealous! I wanted to be there! Well done all involved voices of sanity

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 07/02/2020 23:23

I loved this segment - I was driving along shouting 'halle-bloody-lujah'.

Thanks to WH, the two guests and all the women at the conference.

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/02/2020 16:45

TRA guests were given pre-recorded slots because they didn't 'feel safe' debating with women or talking to Jenni Murray

Oh yes forgot about those bits.

ThePurported · 07/02/2020 16:38

That 2018 series of programmes on WH was good, but I hope they are now wiser and will no longer go along with all that ludicrous nonsense that went on at the time - TRA guests were given pre-recorded slots because they didn't 'feel safe' debating with women or talking to Jenni Murray Hmm

BBC on the whole has been outrageously biased against women. Remember when the Stephen Nolan show cancelled Nicola Williams to appease McKinnon, who refused to appear in the same segment as her and compared Fair Play For Women to the Ku Klux Klan? I would like to think that wouldn't happen now.

Lordfrontpaw · 07/02/2020 16:13

Just listened it it. Wow- lots of boxes ticked! And no - we aren’t all white middle classed.

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/02/2020 15:47

They did an excellent series of programmes in the autumn of 2018 (iirc) but things have moved on.

I absolutely betting that they will be inviting Charlie Evans and others on to talk about the de trans advocacy network for example.

Plus the various court cases. Children etc.

There's so much new stuff to cover.

ChattyLion · 07/02/2020 15:11

Just listened to a tiny bit in my work break. What a joy and relief to hear this situation for women spoken about openly and plainly in mainstream media- as it always should have been possible to do. Thank you brilliant interviewees!Flowers

terryleather · 07/02/2020 14:48

Just listened to this on catch up and was wooping around the kitchen with delight - fantastic piece and the studio guests were brilliant, really showed up the shocking state of affairs when women try to speak in 2020.

Am in shock though, that the BBC broadcast something like this and suspect there will be some kind of "balancing" piece to come in the future - I thought JG's talk of "returning to the subject of sex and gender" was phrased in a way that sounded a bit ominous..but maybe that's just my pessimism talking....

Charley50 · 07/02/2020 14:45

Sounds really great will listen later.

Re: the question on the Today programme, about free speech at uni, specifically women's voices and meetings being repeatedly shut down; I agree with a pp, the reply from the NTU NUS rep was really noncommittal.

Languishingfemale · 07/02/2020 14:44

An inspiring end to the week. Well done Woman's Hour and especially well done WPUK and everyone there.

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/02/2020 14:40

Thanks Arran,

This is also a good 101 what's going on:

(By Helen)

standpointmag.co.uk/issues/february-2020/speaking-up-for-female-eunuchs/

Lordfrontpaw · 07/02/2020 14:35

D'uhhhhhhhhhhh

ArranUpsideDown · 07/02/2020 14:35

what's ' Mumsnet FWR'?

This board - feminism and women's rights.

sleepyinsussex · 07/02/2020 14:34

FWR = Feminism and Women's Rights = this board on Mumsnet

It's what this section used to be called, way back when. I think. (Puzzled me too when I first heard it called that!)

Lordfrontpaw · 07/02/2020 14:32

Sorry, I'm being a bit slow - what's ' Mumsnet FWR'?

ArranUpsideDown · 07/02/2020 14:30

The only think I'd say is that if you had no idea about what's going on, a number of things mentioned wouldn't make sense.

For any lurkers or people who are curious after listening to Woman's Hour @LadyPrincesexual or Jane Clare Jones is very helpful on this.

The other major concern we have is that feminism is fundamentally a political movement dedicated to articulating the interests of female people, and in explaining why female people are oppressed as female people. Women are oppressed by gender, but they are not, fundamentally, oppressed because of the way they perform their gender. Men rape female people. Men exercise violent coercive control over female people. Foetuses are aborted because they are female. Clitorises are cut out because they are the organs of sexual pleasure of female people. Women are paid less because they are female. And none of this can be avoided, or changed, by the way women do their gendering, or by trying to coerce everyone into thinking that female people do not exist. All this will achieve is to make the speaking of the sex-based oppression of women impossible, which is exactly what we’ve been saying is the threat hiding in plain sight in trans ideology this whole damn time. What Twitter is doing, therefore, by seeking to ban as hate-speech the actually non-existent dehumanization of groups of people by ‘reducing them to their genitals,’ is to prevent the speaking of the feminist analysis of the oppression of women

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/26/twitter-trans-rights-totalitarianism-and-the-erasure-of-sex/

#Thisisnotadrill

Masai71 · 07/02/2020 14:29

Thank you womans hour. I stopped the car and was almost in tears and cheering listening to this and not caring who saw

NeurotrashWarrior · 07/02/2020 14:15

Very good and I'm
So
Glad it was there.

The only think I'd say is that if you had no idea about what's going on, a number of things mentioned wouldn't make sense.

I hope that more lurkers lurk here and WH cover more aspects of all this in the weeks to come.

AmericanSlang · 07/02/2020 14:05

Thanks @midclegs I felt quite strongly that if they would just stop shouting mantras and listen for a bit, they would realise the issues discussed at that conference affect us all

ScrimshawTheSecond · 07/02/2020 14:01

Yes, and the subsequent conversation:

'When is that going to stop? '
'It's not, and that's why you need a Woman's Hour'

Thank you, Woman's Hour.

ThePurported · 07/02/2020 13:55

Why would TW need the right of reply on a programme about females and issues specifically affecting females, about a female's liberation conference?

Quite.
Jane Garvey: "Every single day, a man tweets to ask why there has to be a Woman's Hour. Every single day."
Thank you Woman's Hour Flowers