Miss Americana Taylor Swift documentary on Netflix

Interesting analysis of Swift's The Man music video which was recently released:

I think she would be a good public representative

I've been thinking this recently

also, ignore the man at the start....

One of my friends thinks TS is the Madonna of her generation...which reminded me of them playing together here

oh in case any TS fans haven't seen this

I think she would be a good public representative

she's certainly been through enough to know how to handle it.

I don't know what gets classified as country now. I love Story of Us, for example. And Our Song, but sure, that's clearly country.

I don't listen to dress in front of my kids. They just think there's this one song on Reputation I don't like.

I love SO many songs on that album. The people behind the Grammys are assholes. She was basically snubbed again this year too.

Seeing as this is the feminism forum, if you aren't familiar with her more feminist songs here's a list;
Dear John - this song was written when she was 19 I think, and it's incredible. The subject is the delightful John Mayer.
I did something bad
This is why we can't have nice things
The man (being released as a single, lyric video out but think actual video should be out tomorrow and it should be GOOD)
You need to calm down
Shake it off (yes, really)
Clean
Look what you made me do (this song gets so much stick but I love it, it was fab on tour too)
White Horse

I'm sure there are others. Getaway car kinda too. It's just such a good song.

Reputation is underrated. Agrees, Dress is SCORCHING.

Also, where was our video for Getaway Car? That would have been the best. Especially funny if she could get Tom Hiddleston in it!

Reputation is underrated. Dress is fucking hot:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/telly_addicts/3816928-Miss-Americana-the-Taylor-Swift-documentary-anyone-watch-it

She was 19 when the MTV thing happened, not 17. It says this on the documentary, but one of the commentators gets it wrong.

Still really fucking young though. Kanye was like 30.

@AutumnRose1
I'll post a link to the other thread, hold on.

I was really impressed by this documentary. I wasn't really a fan before watching it but have now changed my mind. Her songs are extremely well written so every word is intended and meaningful and she is clearly very talented and creative. I didn't realise she was so young when Kanye happened. The fact that she addressed her own changing opinions of herself so maturely and honestly was also surprising to see.

Never I can’t find the thread you started, interested to hear your views.

After listening to Clean after the whole Harvey Weinstein thing, I couldn't help think that the wine-stained dress thing was a reference to him.

Taylor is very friendly with Blake Lively, who as far as I know has never come out against Weinstein, but who was definitely elevated career-wise by him.

The fact that she sang that song to commemorate the anniversary of her sexual assault trial (the song as a whole lyrically points to being more about getting out of a unhealthy relationship than an abuse thing), but didn't sing that line, kinda makes me more suspicious.

Oh and sorry to go on
But the greatness of the video for “Ready for it” was always that the real Taylor had to break out of her box eventually.

Never yes, it’s all so relatable.

I think by the time we hit late 20s, we’ve all had “I’m sorry, the old Autumn can’t come to the phone right now...why? Oh! Cos she’s DEAD” accompanied by a laugh. I loved the first cartoon video fir that.i think Taylor’s creativity is boundless.

I loved that she sang Clean after taking about her court experience.

It was also nice to see Jack Antonoff. His song, Don’t Take The
Money, has a real OOTW vibe. The sharing of great influence!

I started another thread about this tonight. Sorry! I did search the other week when I watched it for the first time.

I agree that Reputation is a stunning album. I know she got stick for Look what you made me do, but she was fucking spot on. Nice Taylor is dead. I wish she had released I did something bad. It was jaw droppingly good on the rep tour. And throughout all the pain, just this gorgeous love story.

She's such a good role model. Sexy without wearing a thong and bra combo, not plastered in makeup and natural looking, no talons, a healthy weight, strong, feminist, flawed, intelligent and where she is because of her mind, her talent, her creativity.

I said my piece on Kanye on the other thread. Dick. Anyway, they obviously weren't allowed legally to include any of the Scooter/Scott stuff. There's no footage of old videos either and the more obvious songs don't feature. That's probably rights related too, but also a good thing. I love Clean, all too well etc.

I have just watched this

I don't know where to start - how brilliant is she?

Feminist angle - it's so appalling isn't - 7 witnesses, a photo and he sued her!!! JFC.

Dixie Chicks - didn't know what happened to them but glad she has included them in her work. The whole documentary reminded me of Madonna's video for "What it feels like for a girl".

Music angle - I am in awe of Swift's work and seeing her work ethic like that made me feel really lucky to be in the generation that can enjoy her work. Musically, I feel like I've watched her "grow up". I think the responses to Reputation were interesting because I thought it was remarkable. I might even say it was better than 1989.

However, I'm slightly concerned about her drive, if that makes sense? Like, if she's going to be in competition with herself to be better and better, okay. But if she wants to constantly be at the top, then I feel like she might be happier if she does a Meghan Markle and just says "actually, I don't want to live in a goldfish bowl anymore".

Personal angle - I didn't know she was only 17 when Kanye barged in on her award. She handled that very well I think - even if she was 25, I'd say the same.

Her strong feelings about politics and the talk of the armoured car - inspiring. I get it. I don't want anyone telling me what to do. But I do get that only those who don't have to worry about losing their jobs have a platform and might feel a personal urge to say it as they see it.

She really could have ruined her career there.

anyway, I absolutely salute her, not just for splendiferous work, but also for having a tough personality.

I did actually find the music quite distracting because I love it so much, so will probably watch the documentary again at some point.

Finally - it really struck me when she said no male friend, family or team member could ever understand what she went through. So much that.

I'm 44. "Out of the Woods" - which I see in the video way, about finding yourself, not about a man - and "Ready for It" are literally songs that got me through some seminal moments in my life. And that's just the top two. I could go on for ages! But I won't.

if anyone hasn't seen her acoustic versions of 1989 songs at the Grammy Museum - look them up, they're great.

I watched this as did my dtr (we are both huge fans )
Even knowing about the Kanye incident, seeing it on screen like that was heartbreaking. And her thinking the booing was directed at her.
He should be ashamed of himself - a big grown man bullying a very young woman. Male entitlement personified.
And as for the imagery around her naked body in one of his subsequent songs. In what world is that acceptable.
I think she is a fantastic role model for young women.

I never learned anything about Kanye, except I know what he did at the awards of course.

I do remember the incident with Nicki Minaj which was immediately labelled as race related.

Re the self ID.

I could be way over reaching here, but if you look at the video for "you need to calm down" yes it supports LGBT. But, after the original "being gay is a sin" protestors walk away, the cake fight between the others on the "same" side continues.....that might be a nod to acknowledge infighting there too.

When the whole Kanye/Kim thing was going down, I remember reading an article where she was portrayed as a bully for attacking a 'mentally ill black man' (or similar).

Men get a pass, no matter what.

bet she’s into self ID 😄

Yes, unfortunately, she did a music video in which she plugged the (American) Equality Act, which has some great things for the LGB, but bundled with self ID. She comes across as being very intelligent and collected, so it’s hard to imagine she’s just unaware of the problems. But you never know...

I enjoyed her music anyway- I think her confessional style is often construed as shrill and neurotic but that’s what I liked about it, iyswim. She doesn’t seem to be embarrassed of the parts of herself that may be unlikable.

She came across really well in Miss Americana- very smart and hardworking. The scene where her (well-meaning) father worried about the ramifications of tweeting politically was interesting.

Interesting, thanks for the heads up.

You can watch more about what happened to the Dixie Chicks when they denounced the Iraq war in their doco "Dixie Chicks: Shut up and sing"
Thanks Vortex. I'll definitely look that up.

Ha, yes. I love that song AutumnRose1.
For anyone else not sure what the link is (I can't see the preview on my phone), its Swift's 'The Man' where she sings about how she would be treated differently if she were a man. I really like it.