It's 2020 folks. 2020!

Most of the teenage girls I know, and I have teenage DDs, do not roll their skirts up to get male attention. Male attention would gross them out. My youngest has absolutely no idea that her barely there shorts might attract unwanted attention and sadly I need to point it out to her.

'What on earth was the minister trying to communicate with that outfit? '

She'd been out somewhere else first, I doubt she was trying to communicate anything with it.

I think the idea that women and girls are always sending out deliberate thought through messages with their clothes is a bit ott.

Also these messages will be received differently by different people so the whole thing is pointless.

If I wear a short skirt some people won't notice, some will think that's a nice skirt, some will think I don't like that skirt,v some will think she looks like she wants to get fucked over a wheelie bin etc etc

So how can women do all this communicating if there's no common language in the clothes?

But girls and women get looked at, stared at, followed and worse no matter what they wear.

If certain clothes could stop it all, an awful lot of women would be wearing them!

Well apparently many women on this board (looking at you justhadathought and myimangunarycat..) seem to not be aware we are in 2020 not 1950

I'm well aware of the date thanks! But the facts surrounding the sexualisation of women still stands -and in fact much of women's clothing is designed to emphasise sexuality and sexual attractiveness. Surely you are aware of this? Are you pretending that you are unaware that some women dress to look sexy and to show they still have sexual appeal?

I'm not a pack animal, and I don't feel the need to conform to your view of what 'feminism' entails. I believe that women are fully adult and responsible human beings - and should make choices in accordance with that......and if you don't want to be treated as a sex object, or to attract admiring glances or comments on your 'physical assets' don't put them 'on display' in such obvious ways. It is possible to look confident, stylish and individualistic & professional without having to flash your flesh.

What on earth was the minister trying to communicate with that outfit? That women can wear whatever they like wherever they like, and that not of it is of any consequence? As you are suggesting.

That's not to suggest that some of those on-line comments were acceptable - but they were kind of inevitable - and are likely to be mirrored by the thoughts of people all up and down the country.

The idea that a girl who is sexually active underage, is 'sexually knowing' is really dodgy imo.

A lot of people do see female secondary schoolgirls in a really odd way though. And younger, if they are through puberty and their bodies look more grown up.

Answer 1 said many girls are aiming exactly for that

'Many schoolgirls absolutely are aiming to get lustful glances by rolling their skirts up! That was exactly what we were all after in the 80s when we did it, and we were hardly the first or the last generation to do so.'

They then claimed they were always telling about 14/15 yo although they never stated it at the time! We did it from 11 up.

This was the original comment I reacted to

'That is the big problem for me in the way that women are brought up to present themselves as primarily, sex objects - looking to attract admiring or lustful glances. women valuing themselves largely as being seen as sexually alluring or attractive.'

I said 'Schoolgirls who roll their skirts up aren't aiming to get 'lustful glances' from adult men, FFS.'

Two posters responded by saying that is exactly why schoolgirls roll their skirts up. Note I had specially mentioned adult men.

More importantly, what was she saying?

I don't know. I was too busy looking at her shoulder! And that's the point.

I still don't think many 14 year old girls want to be ogled by men.

In fact most women don't want to be ogled by men.

It was the earlier posters saying that schoolgirls roll their skirts up to get male sexual attention that bothered me.

Girls do this from young
And it's not the case that they all do it for that reason

14/15 was brought in later. No idea where that age came from tbh.

Society thinks it knows the motivations of girls once they are over puberty, puts adult motivations on them. Frames then as sexually knowing, deliberately getting men going etc, main reason being that men can be excused when they behave badly. Did you see the length of her skirt, she was asking for it etc.

It bothers me that those posters made such blanket statements.

It bothers me when you see schoolgirls referred to in certain ways due to skirt length. Because it's not a benign thing.

Just looked her up. She's an actress by profession. As such she should be aware of the importance of costumes in the credibility of a character.
She's a shadow front bench spokesperson and that costume was completely inappropriate for her role.

A woman can’t show a shoulder in one of our finest institutions, but a man in drag can cavort with young children in another and that’s totally fine.

Really, @Goosefoot?

If I tweeted right now that MP Tracy Brabin looks like a slapper who has been shagging someone round the back of the bins, do you think I would be banned?

What about if I tweeted a male MP looked like he'd just come back from a spot of cottaging? I'm pretty sure I'd be (quite rightly) banned.

Ok I don't think all 14/ 15 yo girls are looking for sexual attention from men of they roll up their skirts either and I also think they are still very young to have adult ideas about sexual behaviour put on them. A large part of the reason so many men like girls that age is they are naive, vulnerable, easy to manipulate.

It's hard to see what your original point was though. The comments you objected to were that some clothing is sexualised, and even used intentionally for male attention, including by teenagers.

We all know that some teens and maybe even adult women don't have that intent. You seemed to think it was foolish, and also slightly gross, to suggest that any do. No girls want to be ogled by men and all that. Now you say you realise that some may, so it's hard to say why you objected to anyone saying that in the first place.

But no one would accept that kind of homophobia now yet we accept this kind of misogyny.

Hmm, I wonder.

I have to say, men who are dolled up to be appealing to gay men do not necessarily look like men who are dolled up to appeal to women. Rather like Playgirl, when it was still around, had as many, or more, male customers than female ones.

More importantly, what was she saying? Let's talk about that. Who cares if her dress is too casual for the HoC? It's good that she's there.

@Goosefoot No man's sexual morality has ever been questioned because of what he wore

I was wrong to say ever. You are correct, a man's sexuality might have been questioned because of what he wore in the past. But no one would accept that kind of homophobia now yet we accept this kind of misogyny. She is dressed like a woman who came from (as it now transpires) a music awards ceremony not like a hooker. Inappropriate, maybe unprofessional (although it's not unheard of for MPs to appear in the HoC dressed for another event) but she does not look she has been working the streets.

It reminds me of this: www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3500857/RACHEL-JOHNSON-got-Theresa-flaunt-power-mean.html. Apparently, if you've got it (and you're a Tory) , flaunt it.

TheProdigalKittensReturn

Saying "that's not professional clothing" is fine. The rest of it is just sexism. If she was in a more casual environment it would be fine, and none of anyone else's business

Absolutely. The dress would be fine in a bar/ on a night out but not at work. She looks daft.

She looks ridiculous. It is not a work outfit and the comparison with a man turning up in shorts is apt.

She seems to be the one using sexist language.

'You think 14/15yo girls aren't sexually knowing?'

Wow.

Having had sex young =/= sexually knowing.

I simply dispute that girls who roll their skirts up are always seeking to get a sexual response from males.

Again, you keep inserting words like always.
You think 14/15yo girls aren't sexually knowing?
I don't know what the average age of losing viginity is, but I had friends who were sexually active at 14 and 15.

Why are you saying 14/15?

We rolled skirts up all through secondary school.

When mini skirts are in fashion loads of girls of all ages wear them.

To say oh but I only meant this specific sort of girl in this specific sort of situation when it wasn't in the original post is a bit weird.

Ok I don't think all 14/ 15 yo girls are looking for sexual attention from men of they roll up their skirts either and I also think they are still very young to have adult ideas about sexual behaviour put on them. A large part of the reason so many men like girls that age is they are naive, vulnerable, easy to manipulate.

Seriously. I wanted to be a biker's girlfriend when I was 14. It's kind of the height of hormonal craziness but before real ability to predict consequences and see deeper issues sets in.

I simply dispute that girls who roll their skirts up are always seeking to get a sexual response from males.

Lots just do it because it's the done thing.
The idea that girls are sexually knowing etc is very damaging. It excuses men some really awful behaviour.