Drag Queen Story Time at the British Library

Because drag queens arent camp men in dresses. They are over sexualised porno versions of what men think women are with sexual innuendo based names to match.

I don't really think panto is that similar to drag. For one thing cross-dressing in that context is more about a sort of upside-down world, there are also other examples in the show. (Though IMO the best drag is a bit like this too.) And you don't have to have sexualised jokes, or ones that are inappropriate, or that kids really are aware of.

But mainly, it's a show that's generally not just for adults. It's not in a place that is adults only, with characters named for adult activities, etc. Whereas drag is a show, for adults.

I'd not really expect to see panto dame storytime at a library, but at least the kids might know who it was supposed to be. (It might be like having the Paw Patrol Pups, but less popular. )But drag story time, at best, is a bit like getting any celebrity known to adults who the kids are totally clueless about come to read, it's pointless. And it has potential to be more like "adult film star" story time.

*ok, salt, if we accept your premise that it’s positive for little boys to see that it’s fine to dress up, to be camp, to be gay (which I agree that it is, though I disagree that DQST is how this is best achieved)...

What’s in it for little girls?*

I guess they'd enjoy it on the same level as they do a pantomime dame - a funny, silly performer, who is reading them a story.

I mean, I'm not sure I'd bother taking my DD to an event - but if there was one in my area and a few of my mum friends said they had been and it was great, I can't see that I'd have any particular issue with going along.

Which pantomime has the dame in oversexulised clothes?

If you guys don't want kids to be encouraged into taking hormones and stuff,

Just us then? Does that mean you do? Or are just ambivalent about it?

Which panto dame calls women "fish"?

If only there were male ballet dancers and lesbian fire fighters .... ..

I'd love my child to attend events or talks ran by people like this, too! I just don't really see the inherent issue with a camp man who wears a dress reading a story.

If you guys don't want kids to be encouraged into taking hormones and stuff, then surely this is actually a great way for them to see they don't have to? They can just wear the dress - no medical intervention necessary!

ok, salt, if we accept your premise that it’s positive for little boys to see that it’s fine to dress up, to be camp, to be gay (which I agree that it is, though I disagree that DQST is how this is best achieved)...

What’s in it for little girls?

It’s not just the jokes - the voice, the persona (often cruel and bitchy), the oversexualised clothing... don’t conform? So what? That’s just clothes.

This is literally describing a pantomime dame, though?

Just because - isn't it quite good for children to see people who do not conform to gender norms? As in: you can wear a dress and lipstick if you're a man - fill your boots

If only there were male ballet dancers and lesbian fire fighters .... ..

Hasn't kids tv always had men dressed as woman and woman dressed as men salt?

I wonder if part of the reason drag queens have been picked for supposed LGBT events for kids is somehow drag is being seen as an example of LBQT culture.

For example, when we have African heritage days here at places like this, we might have basket makers come in, or singers sometimes. Usually singing or making baskets, though.

So someone thought, what is an example of gay cultural artefacts, and came up with drag? But obviously you can't have a drag show for kid's events, so you get them to read a story.

But they are not 'performing' as men are they Salt, they are performing as a caricature of women and I find it deeply misogynistic and not very funny, so yes I avoid pantomimes and take my kid to things like The Tiger Came to Tea and Tabby McTat.

It doesn't need to be about sex-based stereotypes and about adult related themes to be entertaining.

It’s not just the jokes - the voice, the persona (often cruel and bitchy), the oversexualised clothing... don’t conform? So what? That’s just clothes.

I would prefer them to have someone who is blind, has one leg, reads in Braille, has a stutter, in a wheelchair... but is there to read to the kids not because of any of these things.

DQST is fairly new in the UK Salt

Tom Canham brought it from the US to our shores in 2017

uk.linkedin.com/in/tomcanham

Oh his Twitter it's clear he thinks Mumsnet is a cesspit full of homophobes, but when we ask questions about safeguarding that is often the reaction.

"Five drag queens are actively involved on a day to day basis, but Tom has 30 phone numbers of queens ready to help out. As a small, non-profit, group, however, Tom is not able to cover the expenses of the performers."

I do remember a crowdfunder to cover the cost of the DBS checks but even if they are DBS checked is doesn't mean they 'perform' appropriately for children. I know the one near mean teaches the children to twerk (twerking was made famous by Miley Cyrus and before that: Twerking has long been a part of black culture. ... The origins of twerking can be traced to Côte d'Ivoire in West Africa, where a similar style of dance, known as the Mapouka dance, was originated. The dance has existed for centuries and consists of a series of movements emphasizing the buttocks.)

www.bristol247.com/lifestyle/family/drag-queen-story-time/

Out of interest - if they didn't make any misogynistic comments, would you still have a problem with it?

Just because - isn't it quite good for children to see people who do not conform to gender norms? As in: you can wear a dress and lipstick if you're a man - fill your boots. Teaching kids that you don't have to present yourself or act in a certain way because of your sex is important, I think. And also that it's fine to be gay/ camp, rather than the heteronormative role modes shown in kids tv etc. I am personally all for that; I hope the next generation is a lot more tolerant than the current ones.

Obviously if anybody is saying sexual comments to kids or asking them to roll around with them (is that a thing?) then that's absolutely unacceptable. But the general premise isn't inherently bad, I don't think.

Argh, fucked up my post!

Should have been -“ delivered by men dressed up as caricatures of women”

That’s the one...

Panto doesn’t need dames, the one I went to this year didn’t have any.

The difference between panto - innuendo interspersed with fairy tales and fart jokes - and drag -which IME is overtly sexual content delivered by men dressed in drag - being targeted at children, for no particular discernible benefit to those children, is pretty wide, too, IMO.

Well yes, they aren’t alone with the children but I have seen some photos and videos of some story time behaviour that wouldn’t happen elsewhere ‘yes Jessica, just go and lie on top of that complete stranger over there’

activistmommy.com/wp-content/uploads/kids-on-drag-queen_censored.jpg

Yeah... that's where I'm confused. I've heard plenty of pretty misogynistic, risqué jokes told by pantomime dames. I don't understand why this is considered a new phenomenon.

What @kangtastic said

Just wondered - would everybody who is so staunchly against this not take their child to a pantomime? Most family pantomimes often feature a man dressed up as a woman, don't they? I'd imagine they make a lot more risqué comments/ jokes than the drag queens who do these storytime sessions.

Funny you should mention Panto actually. I went to see Cinderella at Christmas and the ugly sisters made a joke which went:

Ugly Sister 1: meeting the prince would make my day.
Ugly sister 2: oh it would make my ^whole week> (said with big emphasis whilst he rubbed himself all over).

Now, I like a good Panto dame innuendo as much as the next person but I thought jokes about anal sex totally crossed the line and it does feel like boundaries are being eroded when it comes to men being able to talk about sex in front of kids.

Sorry should clarify the bookshelves are labelled with a little plastic sign on top.