Father starts judicial review over 'No Outsiders' programme

Are we actually supporting the protestors or are we talking about the case as presented in the times?

Or are you saying that because he is Muslim he must automatically be homophobic? It's racist to suggest He must automatically be objecting to the teaching around homosexuality and that has just been obsfucated by the newspaper

All or nothing is it, snowblight?

These people have an issue with the whole LGBT. This isn't like they're holding a protest against trans people one day and have a totally separate, unrelated campaign against gay people a couple of weeks later. It's all lumped together for them in one anti-LGBT protest. If you want to pick out the bits under those circumstances that suit your agenda then feel free.

Realising that an LGB human shield would enable all kinds of dodgy stuff to be steamrollered through was a genius move.

Yup. It's even endorsed explicitly as a tactic in that Dentons document that was around a couple of months ago. In Ireland, self-ID was brought into law by piggy backing on same sex marriage legislation.

Similarly, back in the 1970s, PIE tried to piggyback on gay rights to endorse paedophilia. If you supported the rights of adults to have sex with other adults of the same sex, then what could be more logical than supporting the rights of children to have sex with adults?

It still amazes me that people are stupid enough to fall for this shit.

If you support these people you're attacking the lesbians and gay men you claim to be standing up for.

If I support a man who is arguing against the trans agenda of brainwashing kids, I have to support everything else he believes? I that what you're saying? So do I have to become a Muslim as well just because I agree with his arguments against his child being taught in school that he can change sex?

All or nothing is it, snowblight?

Go on, just say it snowblight: everyone realises these protestors are Muslim.

Most of the ones outside the schools in Birmingham are. So?

Go on, just say it snowblight: everyone realises these protestors are Muslim.

Watch a few of their interviews, look at their banners. Far more homophobia than transphobia going on.

Everyone knows

In other words, everyone who is objecting to the No Outsiders programme is homophobic. Realising that an LGB human shield would enable all kinds of dodgy stuff to be steamrollered through was a genius move.

Everyone knows the protests in Birmingham are about LGBT rather than just T, no matter how The Times might try and spin it. Videos of the protesters, their banners and leaflets have all shown them to be homophobic. If you support these people you're attacking the lesbians and gay men you claim to be standing up for.

If you force beliefs (not facts) on people's children, they'll end up removing them from school.

And then different people stop learning anything about one another. Fractures that already exist between the cultures will widen. Tribalism gets worse. Intolerance of difference breeds. The purity spiral spins on.... Bad things happen.

And you can apply that to the no platforming debarcle too.

That’s part of the problem though isn’t it, lumping the T in with the LGB. It’s difficult then to separate out the true homophobes and intolerant people from the ones who object to many transgender issues being taught as fact to impressionable children.

Yes. We know that its a common tactic of TRAs to purposely lump the T in with LGB in an attempt to make all parents look like bigots (Tracy Shaw from SSA mentioned this in her video with Posie this week).

So when I approached my child's Stonewall Champion school to register my concerns over the 'teaching' material, it was clear that the head couldn't distinguish between gender ID and sexuality and therefore concluded that I must be both transphobic and homophobic . He replied that Stonewall is a reputable organisation.

I pointed out that while Stonewall, a lobby group, does have some robust material on the LGB side and has done a sound job in terms of handling bullying in schools etc around homophobia, the 'T' material is sexist, regressive, homophobic, sensationalist and factually incorrect.

But my paper is clearly blotted at that school now.

Midge I agree with you. We don't need to teach children contested metaphysical points as fact in order to teach them to treat people with respect and to be aware of and accept that some people are different to them or have very different beliefs and feelings. I expect the bloke's legal team think they could demonstrate that the ideological/metaphysical position being taught re T is contested and goes beyond the EA but that what's being taught re LGB is more uncontroversial and fits the law.

Comments are interesting , the whole thing could be rather nuanced

Some people believe you can be born into the wrong body. The rest follows from that. Eg children must be aware of that fact otherwise life could be really difficult for them, that children must be in every segmentation put into the class they feel part of. It's totally logical.

I am happy to accept and accommodate (within reason) the idea that some people think they are born in the wrong body. But because I think it's a belief not a fact, I would accept that children need to understand that it's just a personal expression the same as punk for example, but I would not see a need to teach it any more than we should teach about the Plymouth brethren or veganism . I would not see a need therefore to treat people with respect, but not to allow their belief to dictate other peoples actions.

Ahem. Fascinating quote from the link Endofthedays posted:

But for now, parents and children are not thinking about terrorism, they are deciding how they would welcome a polar bear from the North Pole escaping from melting ice caps to take refuge in their jungle. How would he feel leaving his home and what could the jungle animals do to make him feel welcome? What can they learn from each other? Does having new people from different places make the class better?

There is standing room only as families help their children with art work and messages to welcome the polar bear. Some paint Norwegian flags and icy scenes, others write messages. “You are welcome at this school where there are no outsiders,” writes one girl, while her mother uses her phone to look up “welcome” in Norwegian.

I see the point he is trying to make. But applying this to the current trans ideology is telling.

Polar bears are dangerous predators. Introducing to an environment where they don’t belong (the jungle) would have devastating consequences for the animals that belong in the jungle, as they have no protection from this kind of predator. We know this. If something went wrong in a polar bear enclosure at the zoo, no one would suggest chucking the polar bears in with the lemurs.

And yet, we are teaching that not only should the polar bears be put with the lemurs, it’s the lemurs responsibility to welcome the polar bears with flags and make them comfortable.

Of course, we need to look after the polar bears, especially if they themselves are vulnerable. But it’s not acceptable to put another vulnerable community at risk rather than find somewhere more appropriate for the polar bears.

Here comes the backlash!

Hopefully, this time we'll deal with resurgent homophobia with facts, reason and daylight. The 'get over it' campaign was early-stage cancel culture and it's only got worse since then.

We need to consider that parents, even conservative/religious/homophobic ones, do get to decide how to bring up their children and teach them their values - this isn't 'LGB people exist' any more, it's 'and you must hold this opinion of us'. It's state over-reach and just not very sound pedagogy. Educators should offer facts, let learners think critically and draw their own conclusions.

Fascinating q

Hmm. The religious don't care about trans. This is just a way to block the LGB element of sex education. They've objected for ages about "the promotion of homosexuality" in this programme, that hasn't got them anywhere and so now they've latched onto the trans stuff to try to legitimise their real aims.

Wow the comments under the article are great, the public are more informed about the dangers of trans ideology to children.

I've hidden @littleiceage post as I had a report that it was too identifying.
Just to clarify, MN might reinstate in the morning.

As you were

Also worth considering that LGB has been part of PSHE teaching for decades and while it's not perfect, the UK has been a country with a free and thriving LGB population alongside a thriving Muslim population for decades. There wasn't a problem. Until very recently. The problem has arisen - as many problems have arisen - through the shoving of the aggressive (lgb)T political lobby on a very specific and very contentious agenda with no respect for anyone else's culture, needs, values, beliefs.

Yes, this is what's gone on I think. Yes, the trans stuff is anti-scientific, it is ideological. But the LBG is also increasingly presenting an ideological position, not just talking about different things people might encounter, or laws, or getting along with other people whatever views they may have that differ from your own.

It seems like because what people on the left who are nonetheless GC are calling homophobia is something they disagree with, it's ok for schools to teach ideology about the LBG, but not ok to teach gender ideology which they disagree with. The problem is lack of respect for real diversity of views. (Which I would suggest can't be neatly summed up in terms of you are homophobic if you don't support the current progressive view on LGB any more than you can say that about racism or gender ideology or really anything else.)

I guess he has received legal advice that there is no case over LGB

He has a crowdfunder (closed now). He doesn't seem too happy about LGB but his focus seems to be the teaching round transgenderism and identity

The backlash will come. It is only a matter of time. Against LGB and women. The T will bring us down with the rest of them.

The trans privilege movement has got this far by disrespecting everyone else's beliefs and riding roughshod over everyone else's rights. People will only be pushed so far. And many people conflate the T with LGB and feminists.

I wonder how brave the woke warriors are in the face of real prejudice.