Stewart Lee

Pro-Women talk scares the hell out of some people. There is an instant desire to shut it down, to ridicule, to oppress because the ones that oppose us deep down know that we are right but they have gone too far down the virtue signalling rabbit hole to start backing out. It's not about kindness to people (If it were men like Stewart would be kinder to women and understand our concerns.) it's about what is popular on social media.

Also Stewart earns the bulk of his living as a comedian, his target audience are the woke folk. If he suddenly said actually I understand women's concerns and they have a point (because of said audience) he would be 'cancelled' overnight. He's a name but not a huge one. It would be the end of his career as he's always marketed himself to the edgy crowd.

Look at Gervais. He started down the Pro-women route then backed right off.

It’s neatly summed up in some of the research showing who actually does most of the talking in meetings, at social events etc (men), versus the cultural stereotype of women yacking on relentlessly.

If women take up about a third of the airtime, we’re perceived to be dominating the conversation.

I make a point of referring only to men as gossips and sweetie wives because all of the worst, most curtain twitching gossips that I personally know are male.

Anyway, I’ve wandered off the point a bit here.

Soph is in point. There has always been a weird tension in how men represent women talking amongst themselves - unimportant inconsequential chattering of those silly little women v anxiety inducing talk that could lead to who knows where and needs to be shut down. Going back centuries. Mumsnet gets described in both ways. Since I've been on here more I've noticed it more because I take it more personally.
Says alot about Lee if he joined in with the former.

Aw, thanks bernard that’s kind.

You’re right, flamingo, mostly the lazy sterotyping comes from people who’ve clearly not spent any time here.

It is good in a way, RU, I’ve always found that being underestimated is incredibly helpful in life.

Am going to attempt a brief defence of Stewart Lee here.

1. A PP mentioned that he'd attended a posh school. He did, but he won a scholarship there. I don't think his (adoptive) parents were well-off.

1. A PP mentioned that when she saw him he insulted the audience. I've seen him perform live lots of times, and watched his tv show, and he always insults the audience. It's part of the running joke that he is a very clever comedian whose act is too sophisticated for lots of people. In my experience, audiences love it .

1. As other people have mentioned, there are always layers of irony in a Stewart Lee routine and a lot of what he does is take the piss out of himself and his own pretensions to being more sophisticated than other comedians. So there are a lot of jokes about how bitter he is supposedly that less funny comedians are more commercially successful than he is.

1. I have never known him make a rape joke, and I'm pretty sure there weren't any when I saw him in September doing a trial run of his new material. So I'd have to reserve judgement until I'd heard the joke. I find that surprising, tbh.

1. Finally, I've always found him incredibly funny. Humour is personal and all that, so I'm not going to try and persuade other people they should find him funny if they just don't. I am disappointed that he attacked Gervais over the trans stuff (particularly given Gervais's most recent jokes have been aimed at sexual predator and pervert Jessica Yaniv - not a good look when you find yourself on the same side someone who abuses women, frankly) but there you go. Comedians en masse seem to have swallowed the Kool Aid. I saw Bridget Christie a few years ago and she also had a go at gender-critical feminists. I assume eventually the harsh reality of what they're supporting will dawn on them. It just takes some people longer than others.

It's difficult for lots of men to come to terms with the idea of 'women's spaces' that exclude men.

That's why they support male transpeople's rights. They have the common goal of abolishing women only spaces.

All the people I know who watch Stewart Lee are faux lefties with kids who accidentally ended up in private school. They didn't mean to send them there, just somehow tripped & fell & ended up completing a direct debit on the way down.

I listen to Richard Herring’s RHLSTP podcast and I’ve not noticed much in the way of misogyny.

Is this maybe not why he called his show Snowflake/Tornado?

No that’s Richard Herring, who has said some pretty ignorant and misogynistic things too.

What has he said? I've always liked him and he's an intelligent person. I used to like Stewart Lee but went off him a few years ago after a pretty boring show.

The contempt for Mumsnet is one of the most glaring examples of cultural misogyny I've ever seen. Silly chattering empty headed women wittering about prosecco and prams. It's men and young women slagging it off mostly and yeah, the latter is the most depressing. They'll learn of course. But I wish they could skip this bit.

doubly sad when a woman does it. way to demonstrate that internalised misogyny

also (here's a thought), not funny - if you're identifying as a comedian, why not attempt to make people laugh?

they find groups of women silly and frivolous
they think that becoming a mum makes your brain fall out
they think mums aren’t to be taken seriously as a group
Or they secretly know that groups of women together are powerful, they’re actually a bit scared and they are trying to put women in their place.

People who have never read anything on here seem to think it’s all just what pram to buy and how much our husbands annoy us.

In a way that’s good though. Because if they knew what really goes on here they’d try to shut it down rather than just take the piss.

Ellie Taylor last night on live at the Apollo used Mumsnet as the butt of her main joke too.
Just seems awkward and lazy

as usual you articulate my thoughts brilliantly Soph. a person automatically having no respect for conversations that take place on MN really tells you a lot about them

Stewart is not a fan of the site and there was much mirth from the intellectually elite and politically astute

Does Lee realise he's representing the views of the establishment? you ain't no rebel any more Stew, sorry. you're just fronting up for the man (literally)

I completely agree, Soph. I hate the lazy ‘chattering mummies’ stereotype. It’s just saying that the conversations of women are worthless and not as valid or important and those of men.

People who have never read anything on here seem to think it’s all just what pram to buy and how much our husbands annoy us.

I think anyone who uses the concept of Mumsnet as a punchline is letting something show:

• they find groups of women silly and frivolous
• they think that becoming a mum makes your brain fall out
• they think mums aren’t to be taken seriously as a group

None of that comes from any kind of progressive place, and if Stewart really was engaging in the deep critical thinking that he says he is, he’d be able to see that. Don’t worry though, Stu, you’re joining a long and illustrious list of supposedly progressive blokes who don’t, so you’re not special

Using Mumsnet as some kind of trope about women is lazy sexist stereotyping, and when I hear people do it, I think less of them.

He was brilliant for about 10 years, which in itself is an extraordinary achievement in comedy. But in the last 5+ years political correctness has dominated stand up and he's gone down the safe route and his material has suffered. I've seen him live and noticed the decline in genuine laughs

That's says a lot more about him than it does about "Deirdre and Bob" - and not in a good way.

And I wondered, when Lee was talking about Deidre and Bob in their semi and how Deidre didn't understand unisex,

That's says a lot about him than it does about "Deirdre and Bob" - and not in a good way.

I'm a big fan of Stewart Lee.
Haven't seen this show. I see him as a comedian, not a political activist. So I don't consider his stage persona to be his actual political views, although there may be some overlap.
It's different to Frankie Boyle, who maintains a comic and political presence on social media and doesn't separate the two. So you get a comedian who makes fun of Jordan's disabled son in the name of free speech, who then blocks people for being transphobes. There are obviously some things he won't make fun of.

And here's the rub, Lang

Stewart talked about how his 9 year old daughter called out James Bond and his misogyny.

And I wondered, when Lee was talking about Deidre and Bob in their semi and how Deidre didn't understand unisex, what would happen if his own daughter was confronted by a middle aged man in her changing space or a boy stealing her place on the school team?

He's liberal. With my rights.
With her rights?

So you're not Stewart Lee starting this thread to get more material for tonight's show then.

Nah, the OP is brief and to the point.

I don't know who Stuart Lee is. Googled him and I'm none the wiser.

Do you know who Terry Christian is? Now imagine he'd really let himself go.

Big fan.

Hmmm, disappointed in him - I'd credited him with better critical thinking.

If he's reading this thread I'd like an answer to this question: you have kids - would you be happy if they were on a residential trip and had to sleep and change next to a body of the opposite sex? Without them knowing or consenting ahead of time and without you knowing and consenting ahead of time? What about if that opposite-sexed body was walking around naked all the time and your child didn't like it, and felt threatened and scared, but felt their feelings were deemed less important than the naked child?

Particularly if he has a daughter (I don't know if he does):

Would be you ok, when out with her when she's say, 8, to send her into the ladies alone in the knowledge there could be a person in there with a penis, that she might see, when she's alone with that adult individual? Would you be happy if Jessica Yaniv was there and asked her about tampons?

If not, why not? How are our children meant to tell the Katie Dolatowskis and Jessica Yanivs from anyone else? metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

Would you be happy for your daughter to just 'deal with anything' after it happens? Given the prosecution rate for rape is the lowest in a decade. www.theguardian.com/law/2019/sep/12/prosecutions-in-england-and-wales-at-lowest-level-in-a-decade

Or would you prefer for there not to be a great big yawning safeguarding loophole that any old Savile wannabe can jump through?

Also if he's reading this thread - stick around. Rather than mock us, why not actually find out the facts from the 'break it down for me' thread or the 'this never happens' thread. Why are SO MANY women and mothers (and increasingly men and fathers) worried about safeguarding on this issue?

As an Oxford graduate, do you think it's ok that a female academic at Oxford needs security guards to do her job safely?www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3803784-Selina-Todd-threats-security-wrong-side-of-history-my-arse

I saw him at a charity gig at the Royal Albert Hall a few years ago and he was by far the worst on the entire bill..

He was just so unfunny and trying so hard to be clever that he just came across as arrogant and smug. He then blamed us for not finding it funny because, you know, charity audience! He annoyed me so much - its not because we're stupider than your normal fans, Stewart... your just bad