Teen with Aspergers convicted of transgender hate crime, he asked is that a boy or a girl.

If this were shouted by a 19 yr old male at a female PCOS who wasnt transgender do you think he would have been prosecuted by the CPS & punished this way?

Well, it wouldn't have been applicable on that instance.

Just like calling a white policeman a gorilla wouldn't be as likely to get you booked as shouting it at a black one (I think the latter could well get you in hot water).

It sounds like he wasn't in any interaction with the police and just shouted it out as an insult. Like 'is that a woman or a hippo' type of thing.

If this were shouted by a 19 yr old male at a female PCOS who wasnt transgender do you think he would have been prosecuted by the CPS & punished this way?

It doesn't sound like the youth in question just asked the question, though. It sounds like he wasn't in any interaction with the police and just shouted it out as an insult. Like 'is that a woman or a hippo' type of thing.

Religion, race, and disability are not seen as being as significant as trans status, according to the information provided further down by @Poota.

Some interpretations of some religions are very specific about women being only seen by women. When one of them runs smack into the trans debate, it will be a popcorn bonanza.

Religion, race, and disability are not seen as being as significant as trans status, according to the information provided further down by @Poota.

And the Equality Act protects women's rights to ask for single sex medical provision. The HCP letter referred to concerned a mammogram, which is intimate care . The patient's legal right to request such care is very plain, yet the letter was still used to train staff in identifying clearly unacceptable prejudice.

Orwellian is genuinely the right term. As is misogyny.

We passed a man with long hair on the street and my son with asd also said:”is that a man or a woman and I said : “ that’s a man”. This man then told my son :” actually it’s a woman” This was very confusing to my son and very disturbing to us all. It made me feel very angry someone lying to my children like that. I started a thread about it but this was not allowed by mumsnet.

Requesting a female HCP may not yet be a hate crime but its enough to have you labeled transphopic and used as an example of transphobia in a hospitals trans policy.

Not if you trump it with religion.

‘Another officer told Miller that he had not committed a crime but his tweeting was being recorded as a hate incident under the College of Policing’s guidelines on hate crime, the high court in London heard.
‘The guidance defines a hate incident as “any non-crime incident which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender”.’

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/20/police-transgender-rules-breach-right-to-free-speech-court-told

Isn’t the problem with the wording of the law now that the perception by the “victim” of intent trumps everything else?

Not just the 'perception',of the target/recipient but it seems from the CPS Hate Crime school guidance that it could also be the 'perception' of someone else present.

The wording of this suggests that there is literally no defence against an accusation of hate speech?

ROwan
If a vulnerable female patient asks/demands of the apparently male HCP intending to carry out intimate care or examination unchaperoned 'are you a man or a woman?' is this a potential hate crime if the HCP feels embarassed/upset?

You reminded me of this:

www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/12/09/hospital-apologises-to-rape-victim-for-branding-her-request-for-same-sex-breast-screening-medic-as-transphobic/

Requesting a female HCP may not yet be a hate crime but its enough to have you labeled transphopic and used as an example of transphobia in a hospitals trans policy.

Looking at the article, the pcso does pass as a man. Unless they’ve changed their appearance, then I would be suspicious that the shouter knew their past, and that it was a targeted shout rather than a questioning one.

PCSO Freel has been open about being transgender. Its likely that many people in Mold have heard Freel speak about this as part of Hate Crime campaigns:

BBC Wales 'Transgender officer Connor Freel shares experiences to help others'
17 October 2018
(extract)
"Now a police community support officer (PCSO) based in Mold, Flintshire, he is backing North Wales Police's campaign during Hate Crimes Awareness Week.

"It's great if my experience can help others," he said. "That drives me on."

Conor was born female but, from an early age, he said he felt he had been born in the "wrong body".

"I told my parents when I was a small child that I was a boy," he said.

"When I was around 15 I changed my name to Connor and felt free.

"I was no longer acting and not trying to fit into some sort of box I didn't belong in." (continues)

concludes
"Everyone has been great and I don't have any issues with the public. I have now got a male body shape and no-one suspects I was born female."

Connor's story is part of a campaign by the police to raise awareness of a 27% increase in hate crime across north Wales in the last 12 months.

The number of cases rose from 358 to 455, with incidents involving race and religion featuring prominently.

North Wales Police and Crime Commissioner Arfon Jones urged people to "speak out and not to suffer in silence".

Help charity Victim Support said such abuse was "ruining lives", leading to mental health problems and social isolation."

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-45890976

R0wantrees

is this a potential hate crime if the HCP feels embarassed/upset?
No, because there wouldn't have been an intention to cause distress
Its subjective though... isnt it possible that an individual in a health or care setting might 'feel' that there was intention to cause distress?

Isn’t the problem with the wording of the law now that the perception by the “victim” of intent trumps everything else?

What about the disability rights act here? Also people with verbal Tourette’s are also at risk of being in trouble with the law for their inability to not verbalise their thoughts. 😳

Fewer rapes now being reported - fewer prosecutions. Is that because the police are too busy?

You can’t tell from a photo whether the PCSO passes when walking down the street. Height, shape, gait all play a part.

You’ve seen a photo - not them in real life - their size, shape, how they walk and talk. M2F can have face refining surgery and have Adam’s Apple removed - but what can F2M do beyond grow facial fair?

I don’t feel this as biased as pp are saying.
Looking at the article, the pcso does pass as a man. Unless they’ve changed their appearance, then I would be suspicious that the shouter knew their past, and that it was a targeted shout rather than a questioning one.

Nothing to add, but decided to listen to some classic Bowie ... "Rebel Rebel"

When a police officer or comparable public servant puts on a uniform they are in a position of power. They must be able to separate their personal feelings from a situation. They should be trained to de escalate confrontation. They should also undergo disability training to recognise signs autism or other conditions and act appropriately.
While this Officer should be entitled to counselling etc if they feel 'upset' the fact that they chose to use the law for their personal validation means they aren't suited to the serious job they've taken.
'Is it a man or a woman' was a pretty common comment when men started to wear their hair long decades ago. What is the statute of limitations, maybe we should hold an inquiry into historical misgendering.

It's never been discussed in parliament. It's never gone in a manifesto. CPS keep saying they don't make the law. We have a political lobby that is changing laws made democratically in parliament to their own personal interests.

I suppose at least Labour were honest about their intentions. At present it looks like the conservatives are going to whistle innocently and pretend not to notice while they let it happen.

I am seething about this. It's underhanded, it's unethical and its morally wrong.

is this a potential hate crime if the HCP feels embarassed/upset?
No, because there wouldn't have been an intention to cause distress

Its subjective though... isnt it possible that an individual in a health or care setting might 'feel' that there was intention to cause distress?

Patients who are frightened or anxious can react strongly.

"This is where we see if the government roll over and agree that we now have a legal master race"

They already have, judging by that CPS-published guidance on hate crimes for schools. It's on the government's website. It says that LGBT hate crime is much worse than any other hate crime committed against any other protected group.

It also reminds of the hcp professional scenario:

A hcp who is distraught and offended (and takes action) because their patient is distressed and in need of a same sex hcp to meet their needs - is showing doubtful ability to understand or care for that patient or to prioritise their patient's needs and their work responsibilities over their own personal feelings. Which throws doubt on whether they're well enough trained or in the right job.

A police officer who is distraught and offended about someone with a social communication disability being socially inappropriate - (note not swearing, spitting, violent, threatening: that social inappropriacy is very arguable) is showing a doubtful ability to understand diversity and disability in the general public, and to be sufficiently resilient to prioritise working with people over their own personal feelings. Which throws doubt on whether they're well enough trained or in the right job.