Teen with Aspergers convicted of transgender hate crime, he asked is that a boy or a girl.

I'm glad that I'm a truck driver. 😂 The wokeness is still at least a decade from entering my profession.

There are three things going on:

The Public Order Act 1986 is stupidly broad and is not enforced fairly, some protected characteristics are very well protected and some not at all.

Should PCSOs take advantage of this unequal protection to validate their identities?

Did the court case make proper allowance for the fact that Declan Armstrong has Asperger syndrome? (Personally I don't know.)

That's bloody shocking. No doubt people will start avoiding just in case they get arrested over a simple question.

Thanks everybody - I work in the refined atmosphere of a "naice" university (the worst I get is very personalised insults delivered anonymously - "abrasive and arrogant" is my favourite). So I absolutely take your points about other areas of work.

And I don't think any of us thinks that what this young man shouted at a PCSO should have been treated so harshly It's the disprortionality that angers me.

Obviously this PCSO needs training in resilience ...

Yes, just that - that is the work. Maybe it's why people often think of that kind of work as a calling more than a job.

I've actually in the last two years or so seen some things out of nursing groups, supposedly about raising awareness of nurses having a lot of these kinds of interactions and trying to "raise awareness" and reduce them, because no one should have to go to a job like that. I keep wondering, first of all, is this likely to be an effective message among the people with behavioural and social problems? I can't even see it being effective with people who are just jerks.

But I also feel like there is something a lot more concerning in it. Like we are on our way to a creation of an underclass, something like the undeserving poor, yk?

Do we really want to live in a world where we hide away the socially disabled, impulsive, tactless, difficult people?

If you work in the public facing and public service sector quite a high proportion of your most vulnerable clients most in need will be the ones who spit and swear and are drunk or high or confused or delirious, have challenges with social skills, have challenges with emotional control and behaviour expectations, who will threaten to kill you or rape you if annoyed, (gosh this list is reminding me of something can't think what it is), and if you work in prisons or classrooms or as a police officer, getting hit, bitten, kicked and worse isn't unknown either.

There are boundaries, there are approaches to manage it, but dealing with those people and doing it well is part of the job. These are the neediest clients, this is the work you're paid to engage with. If you're going to have the vapours because someone said something that hurt your feelings then frankly being in policing isn't going to end well for you. And I wonder how many non trans police officers get this kind of sympathy and reaction when they're spat at, kicked, sworn at and insulted, or have this apparent total lack of comprehension of what neurodiversity means in practical terms.

Dolo
we lose sight of the fact that abuse of front line workers shouldn't be acceptable.

Abuse should not be acceptable. Of course it shouldn't. But how can shouting at someone asking if "it's a boy or girl" (you could say it's rude at most )
be classed as abuse and that it requires a fine and a curfew?

but on the other hand, police, health care professionals, teachers - no-one should have to accept abuse as part of their job.

I understand why this seems logical, but TBH I don't think I believe it.

I work in a school, mainly with struggling kids from difficult backgrounds. Part and parcel of that is that the kids don't always behave nicely. My mom and BIL were or are ER nurses. It is simply the case that you will gt bad people, people who are in a terrible place in their lives, etc, in that job. And you need to try and help them. My aunt worked in addictions, my uncle in a mental institution - same thing.

When we say we want everyone, without fail, to have access to the medical system, or we want a certain type of policing, or even a certain type of military, what does it really mean to make a statement like "no one should have to put up with that in their work?"

Yes @wellbehavedwomen that is the crux of this matter! THanks for summarising it so succinctly.

@Goosefoot I agree - but on the other hand, police, health care professionals, teachers - no-one should have to accept abuse as part of their job.

I worry that in our protest at the ridiculously severe treatment this young man has received, we lose sight of the fact that abuse of front line workers shouldn't be acceptable.

The problem with this case is that the treatment of a young autist is very harsh and totally out of proportion with the way far worse abuse is levelled at other categories/types of people (I imagine BAME police officers are subjected to some pretty awful stuff).

There's a necessary balance to be made here, I think.

That’s a very good point, fallingirl. Maybe we’ll end up arrested for not automatically knowing how they answer. 🤷‍♀️

Nobody should be abused. I do think that's an important principle. And trans hate does exist - I've witnessed it, in fact. But the reality is that women, and many other groups, are subjected to hate-fuelled abuse all the time, and little is done, even when that abuse is physical. So why was the response here so dramatically heavy-handed here, and why are the CPS issuing guidance, in partnership with lobbying groups, that state that abuse towards LGBT people is worse and more harmful than any other - explicitly using race and disability as less significant comparators?

Just checking. Is it a hate crime to intentionally ask someone to provide their pronouns, or ask someone else what a given individuals pronouns are?

And how different is that to asking whether they are a boy or a girl?

Copied from The National Pulse

In contrast, Freel is a seasoned transgender activist who worked to “raise awareness of transphobic hate crime” and has been part of a campaign “to show more vulnerable members of the community that being transgender was not something to hide”. Freel has even done television interviews about his experiences.

Several pictures of Freel in uniform show him wearing an LGBTQ pride flag pin:

Do those that are making excuses for this ridiculous and over the top punishment of the vulnerable young autistic man, still think the PCSO is a poor vulnerable trans person?

Seasoned campaigner, who campaigns to raise awareness of transphobic hate crime verses young man with autism. Yeah, I’m sure they felt really victimised. 🙄 I bet the PCSO was rubbing the PCSO’s hands with glee at the thought of the court case.

When did we stop asking people in this kind of work to have emotional resilience?
My family has largely been employed in the medical field, and in the military. Both of these sectors have required them to ignore, or even protect or treat, people who were fairly unpleasant to them, usually undeservedly so. ER nurses are used to people being physically and verbally abusive, and even the GPs in my family regularly have patients that are not nice people. But they all still need medical care and someone has to provide it.

Adults generally should have the ability to rise above this kind of thing without emotional damage, and I mean directly and clearly intentionally insulting or provocative speech. It boggles my mind that this would rate at all with someone in any area of law enforcement, even if the person wasn't autistic.

Absolutely Paperdolly.

Well, it wouldn't have been applicable on that instance.

The 'that' is your suggestion that he "just shouted it out as an insult. Like 'is that a woman or a hippo' type of thing."

You aligned what was said with a shouted insult to a female Police officer such as "is that a woman or a hippo type of thing"

In what way is it not applicable?

You drew the equivilence
Do you think female police officers are not shouted at in this way?
Should the CPS prosecute teenagers who shout such things at female police officers?

@SpartacusAutisticus I think your autocorrect is a sharp judge of character, tbh.

@Jargoyle there's this thing called misogyny. You might try to google it one day, perhaps? The fact you can compare being a woman abused for appearance with a white person abused for race is screamingly telling.

I note the ableism has been deleted. Shame, in a way. Always good when people advertise precisely who, and what, they are.

Thing is, a young woman with short hair getting this yelled at her would barely notice, because at least it weren't a gross sexual comment. Far worse happens pretty much every day, at that age

Exactly!

But sexist harassment is not a hate crime. Women & girls are the single protected category under the Equalities Act who are not protected by hate crime legislation. Go figure.

We have become so naturalised into everyday abuse of women it's seen as "normal" and "something girls have to learn to put up with." Or even more sexist: "why are you so upset? It's just words" or "just ignore it"

Look, I don't think that young lad should have been yelling rude or provocative things at the PCSO. But if he's autistic then there's the question of his ability to filter and control his thoughts.

But the PCSO should clearly have been able to deal with such a taunt. They need more training if they were so upset & disturbed by a street taunt. 50% of the population deal with street harassment every day. We shouldn't have to, of course we shouldn't. But we do.

Wonder what the officers, in the force with whom the "victim" works alongside, feel about this.

I can well imagine what they're saying behind the back