Women on women’s march struggle to define women

"This is the kind of crap that leads to people like Trump being elected."
Spot on.
In the US many on the left have never come to terms with the part they played in Trump winning. Unbelievably they are busy doing it again.

This is the kind of crap that leads to people like Trump being elected.

I'm interested in being a woman is 'a process'.

Anyone got any ideas on this? I'd think being born to 'it's a girl', female socialisation, puberty, different expectations etc. If there's a process. The biology (sex) and the expectations on that sex (gender).

I'm assuming they don't mean that though. I'm intrigued what they do mean. It was a clever answer when put on the spot and interesting to see the relief on the first young woman's face when her friend answered!

"If a woman is "anyone who identifies as a woman" or "anyone who wants to be a woman" then what are you marching for? Surely you could just identify as a man an all of the problems you are marching for would simply disappear?"

Totally agree with you, applestrudels.

I wasn't meaning that someone deliberately drew them into thinking that way, but that the logic of what they were already doing drew them in that direction.
I think that's what happens in a lot of examples of bad thinking. Someone accepts a dodgy idea, or some sort of practice, and they think it seems good at the time. But then it logically leads to something that is a problem. And you can't get out of that logical hole unless you backtrack to where you went wrong in the first place.
Often people don't want to do that though, they see that earlier step as something non-negotiable, already accomplished and are unwilling to rethink or reframe it.

"Thinking about it that way, it becomes easier to see how the left has been drawn into this type of thinking, even about a biological difference between the sexes."

Drew them in?
Who drew them into this thinking?
You're talking like they had no agency.
It's the lefts own dogma that has created this shit show. It was certainly nobody on the right. It was certainly nobody in the centre.

I wonder if it is all part of what the Woke see as the ongoing battle between the oppressor and the oppressed. Any exclusive club (such as that of biological women) is automatically oppressive, and their knee-jerk response is that any boundaries that prevent the 'oppressed' from entering said club are illegitimate and must be broken down, no matter who the 'oppressed' are and regardless of any safeguarding concerns this could entail.

Yes, this is what people like Jordan Peterson call cultural Marxism. Which isn't a real thing, quite, but it's meant to be a description of what you are pointing out. A Marxist class, applied to almost any kind of group or category, with an assumption that one side is being oppressed, and the idea that by destroying the grouping it will create justice.

Thinking about it that way, it becomes easier to see how the left has been drawn into this type of thinking, even about a biological difference between the sexes. How often, for example, does a feminist analysis assume that women more often end up as carers because of class oppression, and somehow if the right conditions were achieved there would be a balance of men and women in such roles? Despite there being no strong empirical evidence for that, and some reason to think it may be false?

any boundaries that prevent the 'oppressed' from entering said club are illegitimate and must be broken down, no matter who the 'oppressed' are and regardless of any safeguarding concerns this could entail

... and we're back to queer theory.

(Runs I mean. No barrels here).

Thanks, I'm just hoping someone who knows more about it than I do takes it and tuns with it :)

That sounds about right, Freespeecher. 'Exclusive' is being conflated with 'oppressor'. Error of logic.

*ThinEndoftheWedge

'How do you define a woman? - Adult human female

Can anyone be one? No by definition it only covers adult human females'.

I wonder if it is all part of what the Woke see as the ongoing battle between the oppressor and the oppressed. Any exclusive club (such as that of biological women) is automatically oppressive, and their knee-jerk response is that any boundaries that prevent the 'oppressed' from entering said club are illegitimate and must be broken down, no matter who the 'oppressed' are and regardless of any safeguarding concerns this could entail.

It's amazing the amount of damage you can do when you abandon common sense for ideology.

what the fuck is this shit. Jesus

Which is why they're all saying the right words out loud, but unconsciously looking away and shaking their heads, signalling their utter lack of faith in what they're saying.

As India Willoughby so sadly said on BB: even when people are made to say it, you can't make them believe it.

"How did we get here"

A bit disingenuous really.

Leftwing identity politics and Intersectionality.
Great when you are in the tent pissing out but unfortunately if you are GC you are now firmly outside the tent getting pissed on.
Hence the reason grown women break out into a sweat when asked on camera simple questions like this. That clip may have been edited but do a bit of research and you'll find scores of vox Pop interviews like this on YT with women at rallies and campuses and it's almost to a person the same response.
They know that one slip and their previous friends both online and itrw will drop them like a hot potato. It's not that unlike life under Stalin. Everyone scared to speak.
Just as with Greer you can have a lifetimes work fighting for women but you'll have nothing in the bank with these people. One wrong statement and you are flushed down the shitter.

Agreed applestrudels. One of the young women said it's a choice to be a woman and I wish he had followed up by asking why she had made the choice to identify into oppression. Why not just make the choice to be a man so all her problems would disappear?!

If a woman is "anyone who identifies as a woman" or "anyone who wants to be a woman" then what are you marching for? Surely you could just identify as a man an all of the problems you are marching for would simply disappear?

I feel like I'm staring into the abyss.

This reminds me of the immigration conversation. For a long time no one could express any concern about the levels of immigration (as in the numbers) without producing the Gordon Brown effect i.e. labelled a bigot or some sort of proto fascist.

Eventually politicians began to realise there was a conversation to be had and that expressing concern did not make you a bigot or ultra right wing, any more than expressing concern about self ID made you a TERF. Are we at last reaching a point where the conversation can be had? In the media yes, but among politicians where it really matters? Apart from the Monmouth MP do any of them have the guts to recognise there is a real problem?

How to define a woman
There's a way, said the wise old man

A way known by every woman
since the whole rigmarole began

Should I flatter him? She begged him answer
Should I threaten, or cajole or plead?
Should I woo or play the game? Romance him?
Said he smiling
No indeed.

How to define a woman?
There's a way let me tell you dear,
It's an adult human females.
The rest is a lot of fear

They didn't seem scared to me, so much as desperately eager to be seen to say The Right Thing. Some seemed worried when they couldn't work out what was The Right Thing To Say. Perhaps because they're knew that the truth was not it. Cognitive dissonance overwhelmed them.

This is exactly what we said would happen. Women unable to define themselves as a group distinct from males.

Yes. Our 'brave new world' where the few are bubble-wrapped to protect them from a truth they find painful, and the many have to maintain the lie, at our own expense.

women feeling too intimidated to be able to say what a women Is in the 21st. How the he’ll did we get here

Because the identity politics fanaticism has colonised public discourse. Because the tactics deployed by these authoritarian zealots are to immediately accuse anyone who doesn't submit of hate speech. And if that doesn't shut them up, to embark on an orchestrated denunciation campaign aimed at destroying their career. From what I have observed, white liberals are so terrified of being accused of bigotry that they submit to the new orthodoxy. Also courage in this environment can have catastrophic consequences. It is truly bonkers. But here we are.

At some point in the not-too-distant future when ‘woman’ finally means nothing, these people will look at their pink pussy hats and realise that Trump wasn’t grabbing a gender identity.

And then they will think what a good idea it would be if there was a collective name for the group of people who have their pussy grabbed by more powerful people, or who are discriminated against at work when they have babies, or who never get to win any medals in sports so that they could agitate on their behalf.

How deeply depressing.
I'm just going to say XX chromosomes. But no doubt someone will then talk about intersex.