Does anyone else feel isolated for their views on gender?

I work in (getting ever more) woke sector and am strongly GC. If I lose my job, so be it. I'll be sad but I'll find alternative work

It wouldn't be a catastrophe for me to be out of work. However I understand that's not the case for everyone and sympathise with those who feel unable to express their views for fear of repercussion.

Oh and the teens in my family and their pals take the piss out of it all, it's a joke to them.

I have seen bi people on social media type they want a man or a woman, not a ''hybrid'' - their words, not mine.

No, all my family bar a woman in a drumming group that used to be women only and is now led my a transwoman are gender critical.

When I told my dad there are straight men identifying as lesbians and going to lesbian groups he. was. LIVID. He also says they should not be using women's loos etc. The other men in my family all agree. And that's regardless of surgeries etc. My dad now waits right outside the women's for me when I use public toilets if we're out together. He has definitely become protective of me. I have also told him and others about the two girls who were assaulted in Fife. People are NOT happy.

I think it's useful to make a distinction between bisexual and pansexual, especially on dating websites.

Being pansexual makes it clear that dating trans people isn't a problem. Being bisexual doesn't mean this.

No, but then I had a couple of mates chipping away at me so when I finally got it I knew exactly who I could talk about it with.

Just keep going, you are a chipper rather than a chippee, but soon someone will come to you and go ‘oh my god! You are the only person I know I can talk to about this’ and then they will be the next chipper.

I work in a lamentably woke organisation

Ha, me too.

And I was literally off the Christmas card list of an old friend last year, almost certainly for my terfy views. Query over a school mum friend as well (privileged education, circumstances etc; if ‘luxury beliefs’ is a thing, she’s a case in point).

... she says it is seen as much cooler and more socially acceptable than being gay as a teenage boy.

Exactly. Erasing homosexuality.

I do feel isolated from my partner who is very much TWAW and went through a phase of rejecting 'she' pronouns and declaring herself pansexual. Thankfully she is back to being a lesbian again. And no she is not a woke teen she's a mature, intelligent woman.

We have had to agree not to discuss it anymore.

I do think pansexual is a legitimate sexuality and separate from bisexual.

Bisexual - attracted to men or women

Pansexual - attracted to men, women, trans men or trans women

Not at all. I’m retired and socialise with people mainly in my own age group. The whole damn lot of us are solidly gender critical!

Me too with all friends of the same generation as me. A couple of younger (in their 30s) relatives - both gay men - have been 'lost' because they just shut me and my partner out when we said what we thought.

Aside from being a trend, pan can be a shorthand way for some people to indicate they would accept a partner with mismatch of genitals, ie they would be open to dating a trans woman with a penis or a trans man with a vagina.

Not all bisexuals would.

Correct. I date women, and I date men. I feel desperately sad for anybody who feels they were born in the wrong body, I know and am friendly with half a dozen trans men but I have no interest in having sex with trans people.

Some of the trans women I have met have been so damn incongruous that I don't feel safe around them, in the same way that coming across a stranger in the street who is acting weirdly and appears to have a mental illness or be on drugs feels dangerous to be around.

Others I just feel sorry for, because they seem lost and desperately grateful if you will treat them with human dignity.

None of them I've wanted to shag. I like my men and my women to be at least sure of themselves, and kind people. All of the trans people I've met I've either felt scared of their behaviour, or wanted to motherly protect (wanted to, not acted that way unless appropriate before anybody starts).

If I'm honest I'm still unsure if this makes me transphobic. I'd be sad if that was the case, but I'm also old enough and secure enough in myself not to feel the need to adjust who I will sleep with to please others.

MotherofKitties - well exactly.

Such complexity to get one's head around, when in fact folk are folk just as they always have been, with their idiosyncrasies.

Imagine being 13 and trying to get your head around all of this. I am glad I am past that stage.

@midgebabe 😃

Accompanied by pipes

Yes, I do. My DCs told me I was transphobic because of my views, though I think they’re better informed now.

I think the problem is partly that things are genuinely so ridiculous that people think it can’t be true: eg self ID in all it’s forms.

I’m also scared to say anything in public in case it affects my job, and then annoyed with myself for being weak.

I think people want to appear progressive and accepting but they haven't thought through what it really means.

I spoke to someone in their 30s about it who I expected to understand where I was coming from. They admitted they didn't know much about it but they still trotted out the nonsense that they've been fed and we were in disagreement.

When I questioned a little deeper they did accept there were some issues and I pointed out that if there were some issues then it needed to be considered more robustly.

@Kit19 same here re work, I feel so alone.

I can't talk about this under my own name. I and almost all of my friends are left-wing, I agree with them on I think absolutely everything else but the twice that I have mentioned my position with two different groups I have been 1) started at in polite horror and 2) online shouted at, any possibly of discussion shut down and threatened with being doxxed to my employer. Which, for reasons I can't discuss bevause they would be outing, would be Very Bad Indeed.

I am gobsmacked that lefty feminists will so readily throw women under the bus, but in my experience they're being led by the nose like a bull.

Aside from being a trend, pan can be a shorthand way for some people to indicate they would accept a partner with mismatch of genitals, ie they would be open to dating a trans woman with a penis or a trans man with a vagina.

Not all bisexuals would.

I'm early 30s and from the few conversations I've had with people my own age we all seem to be in agreement it's a load of nonsense. I don't understand how it's all got so complicated with multiple different names for what is essentially the same thing?

You'll either be straight, gay, bisexual, or asexual. If you like members of both sexes then bi covers it. If you like members of your own sex then gay covers it. If you're not attracted to anything then asexual it is. I don't understand the need for Pan, Queer etc etc.

And as for transgender, again, similar views held with those I've discussed it with; you can't change sex. You're either male or female and that biological fact can't changed regardless of self-identifying, gender reassignment surgery or otherwise. I have no issue with people identifying as whatever they want, as long as it doesn't affect the rights and privacy of others.

I know that in the current climate there will be many who would class my views as offensive, but frankly I don't care anymore. I've gotten so fed up of this current culture where any sign of voicing an opinion that is against the status quo is being automatically labelled as offensive/bigoted/genderist/take your pick of an insult, it feels like the freedom to an opinion has gone.

History is full of educated barbarians.

Wonderfully put.

No. I work in a lamentably woke organisation where Stonewall’s hand is evident in several of our E&D policies. Even so, I have male and female colleagues who are firmly GC. They don’t shout about it, but they are very cross about the current situation. One of my male colleagues thought that the “she folds them like deckchairs” MTF rugby player was outrageous because there had been no consideration of risk to other players.