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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

neck like a jockey's arse

42 replies

againstvaw · 27/01/2020 17:41

Here is letter from Helen Webberley to the BMJ about education on gender dysphoria for doctors. Webberley was struck off the medical register after a teenage girl for whom she prescribed hormones for years commiitted suicide. She states that she has no competing interest in writing the letter.

"Re: The struggle for GPs to get the right care for patients with gender dysphoria

Dear Editor,

Once again we read about the difficulties faced by doctors who are asked to provide care for their trans patients. Yes, gender dysphoria can be a ‘difficult terrain for primary care doctors’, but it is also a difficult terrain for trans patients.

Sally Howard has carefully balanced the plight of patients stuck on long waiting lists to see specialists, with the difficulties presented by the lack of education available for doctors. She mentions that gender identity and gender dysphoria are not part of the GP curriculum, but startlingly, they are not part of any Royal College curriculum. If we examine the core competencies of the current GMC approved curricula for all of the specialties, in particular the curricula for the core competencies of General Practice, Paediatrics, Paediatric Endocrinology, Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, then the needs and care of transgender patients only exist in the GP curriculum.

There is no specific GMC speciality or sub-speciality for doctors providing treatment to transgender patients. In the section of their website on education, the GMC states: ‘We set the standards for providers of medical education and training, and we regularly check to make sure those standards are met. Here you'll find the standards, guidance and curricula we publish along with supporting materials.’ www.gmc-uk.org/education

How can standards be set, if the core competencies of a doctor’s knowledge do not include care for this patient group?

In the current absence of UK educational materials, doctors have a duty to seek out international guidance to help their patients. There are excellent published guidelines for GPs which have been written to ‘equip primary care providers and health systems with the tools and knowledge to meet the health care needs of their transgender and gender nonconforming patients.’ How is it still so acceptable for doctors not to undertake personal learning to address their lack of knowledge?
transcare.ucsf.edu/guidelines/introduction

Sally Howard quotes The Royal College of GPs advising their GPs to not feel ‘expected to fill gaps in commissioned gender identity specialists and clinics.’ However, this leaves their patients unsupported and them open to litigation battles. Is this really the best advice for their members?

Articles such as this continue to reinforce the narrative that this is a ‘difficult’ and ‘complex’ issue that needs specialist training. Few publications that write about the difficulty faced by doctors in their lack of knowledge and skills, actually pin down what the patients are asking their doctor to provide.

In her letter to the BMA back in 2016 regarding their response to the GMC Guidance for doctors treating transgender patients, Susan Goldsmith, acting Chief Executive for the GMC, wrote, ‘While GMP [Good Medical Practice] states “you must recognise and work within the limits of your competence”, this principle cannot be a bar to doctors taking on new responsibilities or treating unfamiliar conditions.’ She went on to say that ‘…we don’t believe that providing care for patients with gender dysphoria is a highly specialised treatment area requiring specific expertise.’
gendergp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Susan_Goldsmith_to_Chaan...

Patients need belief, support and medication. They are not asking to be ‘diagnosed’; they are asking to be believed when they explain how their gender feels different to the one they were assigned at birth. They are not asking for medications that are addictive, dangerous or that require extensive monitoring. They are asking for medications in common use in every day practice. Medicines such as estradiol, testosterone and GnRH agonists. Commonly used medications when treating menopause, androgen insufficiency and prostate cancer. They are not asking for deep psychotherapy, they are asking for support to help them navigate their lives.

And who is better placed to provide this than their GP?

Competing interests: No competing interests
24 January 2020
Helen Webberley
Doctor
GenderGP
www.GenderGP.com
@MyWebDoctorUK

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iklboo · 28/01/2020 19:29

Exactly @againstvaw - I totally agree with you. They SHOULD be struck off and never be allowed to practice anywhere ever again. Preferably jailed.

againstvaw · 28/01/2020 19:03

@ikiboo

Sorry. That couple know exactly the harm they are doing it and continue to do it - for money. A dead teenage lesbian is the cost of doing business.

OP posts:
iklboo · 28/01/2020 18:45

Sorry - that came across really snotty! I totally agree with you about her and what she and her equally vile husband are and have been doing.

rogdmum · 28/01/2020 18:45

As Old said, triptorelina is the puberty blocker used by the Tavi.

Michael Biggs’ paper on the Tavi puberty blocker “experiment” is well worth a read:

users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/Biggs_ExperimentPubertyBlockers.pdf

iklboo · 28/01/2020 18:44

Suspended is not 'struck off'. It means she's not allowed to practice medicine in the UK at the moment. GMC unfortunately can't stop her practising abroad as long as she makes it clear she is GMC suspended.

iklboo · 28/01/2020 18:42

@againstvaw - ongoing GMC investigations. Check their online register - she hasn't been struck off (yet).

againstvaw · 28/01/2020 18:38

@ikiboo

She's not been struck off. She's currently suspended due to ongoing investigations.

What investigations? She was convicted in a criminal court of running an unlicensed clinic and suspended from the register. Despite this, Mermaids continued for months to list her on their website as a recommended practitioner.

Here's a link to a Times story about Webberley and husband (both "suspended" from the medical register) planning to continue to ride the trans gravy train from Spain.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/suspended-gps-helen-and-mike-webberley-move-sex-change-clinic-to-spain-55ldpc57g

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Goosefoot · 28/01/2020 14:20

There's a trans man YouTuber who has blogged about being given blockers (lupron injections, to administer them self which it seems is highly dangerous due to the potency of the drug) after transitioning and while taking testosterone in order to stop break through periods.

I think people have become weirdly blasé about this stuff. We know that people now go to day spas for invasive cosmetic procedures, and some of the things naturopathic doctors do, giving vitamins into the bloodstream etc, seem crazy to me. There is a "clinic for men" near me that advertises things like testosterone shots to restore vitality. But there are big ads for all this in the papers and no one seems to blink an eye. Even the way people are self-medicating constantly with oral herbs and vitamins, or going on diets, cutting out this that and the other thing.

And most of it has limited medical evidence attached and they aren't under medical care.

jadefinch · 28/01/2020 14:08

The family of Jayden Lowe may disagree that Helen Webberley has no competing interests

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/transgender-treatment-nhs-webberley-jayden-16504026

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 28/01/2020 13:53

I didn't think dosing anyone with testosterone was in common daily practice? I'm not aware that men find it easy to be prescribed with it for low levels, and quite possibly for good reason (though possibly not - not a doctor)?

No, it's an absolute bugger to get - my BIL was off, putting on weight, tired, brain fog, you could tell something wasn't right with him, he'd been to his GP multiple times, and just been fobbed off with perhaps you're depressed, try these for 6 weeks and see if it helps, for over a year. Finally he went privately to an endocrinologist, who discovered very, very low T. and gave him injections for a few months which were a revelation. Then BIL went back to his normal GP to continue care (I don't know the exact ins and outs), and he couldn't get the jabs at all - they offered gel (or cream) - which is completely unsuitable given he had a toddler and baby and it can rub off on them!

They basically assume that a bloke is angling for testosterone for muscle building, and getting them to prescribe it for actual low T is virtually impossible if you don't go private.

NeurotrashWarrior · 28/01/2020 11:57

There's a trans man YouTuber who has blogged about being given blockers (lupron injections, to administer them self which it seems is highly dangerous due to the potency of the drug) after transitioning and while taking testosterone in order to stop break through periods.

I dread to think what that individual's health will be like in the future.

GrinitchSpinach · 28/01/2020 11:19

Serious Lupron side effects in the US:

It seems that my body is slowly decomposing, and I feel like a hobbled, twisted ruin in agony. My medical records describe me as a “frail, cachectic, chronically ill appearing woman who appears older than stated age.”
www.kelseycoalition.org/pubs/Lupron-Victim-Advocate-Issues-Urgent-Warning

There are multiple online support groups and websites dedicated to so-called Lupron victims, like Terry Paulsen. She was outgoing and active before taking Lupron for her endometriosis. Now she has full-blown, debilitating osteoporosis.
www.10news.com/news/team-10/exclusive-san-diego-women-speak-out-about-highly-controversial-drug-injection

For years, Sharissa Derricott, 30, had no idea why her body seemed to be failing. At 21, a surgeon replaced her deteriorated jaw joint. She's been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease and fibromyalgia, a chronic pain condition. Her teeth are shedding enamel and cracking.
www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/health/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems

OldCrone · 28/01/2020 11:03

Lupron is the same type of drug as triptorelin/decapeptyl, but I don't think it's normally prescribed in the UK. There is plenty of evidence coming from the US that it's not a safe and harmless drug, though.

Datun · 28/01/2020 11:01

Maybe they published the letter in order to highlight the problems. Not as any kind of endorsement.

OldCrone · 28/01/2020 10:57

The GnRH antagonists I don't know the trade names for, so haven't looked up. These are drugs usually used to treat late stage prostate cancer, I believe?

This is one that is used as a 'puberty blocker' in the UK.

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/triptorelin.html

GenderfreeLang · 28/01/2020 10:56

Lupron, a trade name for GnRH, side effects

www.drugs.com/sfx/lupron-side-effects.html

It is an extensive list.

GenderfreeLang · 28/01/2020 10:45

By HW logic as long as the drugs are in general use it doesn't matter what they are prescribed for. So Zofran for a broken leg maybe?

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 28/01/2020 10:45

And when GnRH analogies are given to girls with cancer (off label) it’s for a very limited time period (under 6 months, in my experience) and designed to preserve fertility, not risk ending it (by temporarily shutting down the ovaries so they are less likely to be damaged permanently by chemo).

ScrimshawTheSecond · 28/01/2020 10:45

I've just googled the first two meds listed there by Webberly, this information is not difficult to find.

On what basis is she claiming these are 'not dangerous' - especially as they are in trans cases being used for purposes other than that they are generally prescribed for? :

'Commonly reported side effects of estradiol include: cerebrovascular accident, infection, malignant neoplasm of breast, endometrium disease, headache, and mastalgia. Other side effects include: abdominal pain, limb pain, pruritus, sinusitis, nausea, skin rash, and vaginitis. See below for a comprehensive list of adverse effects.'

www.drugs.com/sfx/estradiol-side-effects.html
www.rxlist.com/consumer_estradiol/drugs-condition.htm#what_are_side_effects_of_estradiol

'Testosterone injection is used in men and boys to treat conditions caused by a lack of this hormone, such as delayed puberty or growth. It is only recommended for males with a known medical condition, such as a genetic disorder, problem with certain brain structures (called the hypothalamus and pituitary) or previous chemotherapy.'

'Misuse of testosterone can cause dangerous or irreversible effects. Testosterone injections should be given only by a healthcare professional. Testosterone can lead to serious problems with the heart, brain, liver, endocrine, and mental health systems. Stopping testosterone may also lead to unpleasant withdrawal symptoms.

Testosterone injections have also been linked to a condition called pulmonary oil microembolism (POME), or a blood clot in the lung that can be fatal. Seek medical help immediately for symptoms including chest pain, dizziness, trouble breathing, urge to cough, throat tightening and fainting.'

www.drugs.com/testosterone.html

The GnRH antagonists I don't know the trade names for, so haven't looked up. These are drugs usually used to treat late stage prostate cancer, I believe?

iklboo · 28/01/2020 10:44

She's not been struck off. She's currently suspended due to ongoing investigations.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 28/01/2020 10:43

And estradiol for menopause is taken for a limited time period, with most GPS wanting you off it asap (certainly within 5 years).

When prescribed to trans patients it’s for much longer periods (either life long or until the person decides to detransition) so obviously it’s a much bigger risk.

Webberley is bonkers.

Mayomaynot · 28/01/2020 10:31

"They are not asking for medications that are addictive, dangerous or that require extensive monitoring. They are asking for medications in common use in every day practice. Medicines such as estradiol, testosterone and GnRH agonists. Commonly used medications when treating menopause, androgen insufficiency and prostate cancer. "

Because parents really want their gender non-conforming children to be given medications used to treat prostate cancer when they haven't got prostate cancer... Hmm And HW somehow thinks this is reasonable? Angry

Datun · 28/01/2020 10:30

"Just believe".

Although, in her defence, the entire diagnosis does consist of exactly those two words.

Needmoresleep · 28/01/2020 10:29

Dosing with testosterone...isn't there a whole generation of East German athletes who can attest to the risks. Didn't Sharron Davies, who at the height of her career was never beaten by anyone who was not from East Germany, make a documentary where she met her former rivals and ended up seeing them as victims, given their awful health problems.

The testosterone experiment has already been carried out. No need to repeat it.

Datun · 28/01/2020 10:29

They are not asking to be ‘diagnosed’; they are asking to be believed

The breathtaking arrogance is difficult to accept.

"Just believe".