Oh BBC home page picture editor could you be more annoying?

Yes all menopausal women in stock photos are super-healthy-looking and in a great mood, and it's always really sunny as they tumble between pure white sheets with their silver fox, or gaze at the horizon over a bowl of muesli.

The thing about menopause is you often feel crap, exhausted or just fucking pissed off. That doesn't mean it's all negative and I do see it as a gateway to a new start – but it would be nice to see a grumpy woman grabbing her midriff flab, or a lesbian middle-aged couple sharing some chocolate. It would make me laugh and feel recognition instead of feeling even more crap.

I think that photo is definitely sexualised, what with the woman's pose with her legs slightly spread and the skimpy costume. It is clear to me she isn't partaking in the activity described in the article, her hair and swimming costume are not at all suited to cold water swimming.

I think it's a shame some posters can't see that using women for decoration, presenting the female body in a manner that titillates the heterosexual male gaze, is bad for all women. It is reducing us all to objects.

And no, I'm not jealous of this woman, I do not have a problem with beautiful women in stock photos (where appropriate) and I'm not trying to body shame her. It would just be nice for a change if the default image of a beautiful woman in a revealing outfit wasn't so pervasive across all media, including a news article about a pastime favoured mainly by middle-aged people.

Oh god yes, the ‘grinning cheesy American style’ stock photos just dont work in the UK. We’re all a bit dour and pissed off looking.

I can't stand the menopausal middle aged woman with grey hair stock photos, especially when they are doing joyous exercise. Or the ones with a similar plastic man where they smile together like a denture fixative advert.

Stock photos are invariably awful. I don't know who collates them but they show a white, sexist, model world. It's like the Nazis won on stock photo sites.

And they aren't 'real' people. And I don't mean overweight I mean that they are gurning models. And I've known a few models and they don't look like that everyday.

So no, news articles shouldn't be using them. News is real, the photos should be real. Anything else is just lazy journalism or click bait.

Send personally its good imo to show young conventionally attractive women doing stuff, rather than used as decoration.

She's not named or part of the article though. That's the problem.

'As I’ve said before, if one of the swimmers was going to be used it would have most likely have been the best looking.'

They should have used I've of the actual swimmers, who is quoted and named in the article.

If the woman in the pic was one of the swimmers and was named and quoted/ interviewed it would be aok by me.

I still prefer the pic of hugh and carrot woman 😁

As regards the supposed invisibility of middle-aged women, I think mine has started to work, in that as I cross the road by my uni, loads of cyclists are obviously incapable of seeing me, and sail past. Which now means I have become mad shouty woman, as I exclaim 'RED LIGHT' to each one..............

"If they had photos of the ACTUAL swimmers they were writing about, they SHOULD have used them."

In a nut shell!

The BBC used to be pretty bad when it came to stock photos -- for example, articles on gay stuff always had a stock photo of two men holding hands. Okay, I understand that a photo of two women holding hands would not necessarily trigger non-straight as fast as two men doing so, but meant that such general gay articles tending to have no photos of lesbians at all, Hence the old 'gay' just taken to be shorthand for gay men that we are all so used to. As regards the male gaze, I found todays article on the gay male gaze very sad, with gay men now beginning to follow women down the body image issues route..............

I had not RTFT.
People come in all shapes, sizes , ages .
Some are attractive, some or not .
If they had photos of the ACTUAL swimmers they were writing about, they SHOULD have used them.

I agree she is not super thin .
Why am I using super?
The swimsuit looks wet too . She just looks fine . It is not objectifying or tantalising.

I have been reading about the male gaze.
I used to think it only applied to art, films and adverts and stuff but now I see it applies to me and how I see myself, my sexuality and how I express it. This does not come just from me but from the world around me, how I reflect it and what rewards I get given for it.

What I find ridiculous about this debate is that it’s being disguised as a concern about objectification of the person in the photo. It isn’t at all about that

No, it's not about concern for her, not her personally. It's about the portrayal of women in the media through the lens of the male gaze which has become so normalised that some women don't even see it! Or, they do but justify it by saying "but I'm heterosexual and I'd rather look at an attractive woman". That's serious cultural conditioning, it creates a Pavlovan response!

There was no Earthly reason to illustrate that article with a photo of a woman who had nothing to do with the article. Most people would prefer to see a life-affirming pic of one of the actual wild swimmers.

Some person chose to illustrate it with the generic atteactive female swimmer photo. Why?

Stop kidding yourselves. It’s about the fact that older/less attractive people (in this case a woman) are not used enough to advertise/seen in the media. I can get behind that. What I can’t bear is hypocrisy.

Not a bit of it. My body type (slim, curvy hourglass) is way more sexualised and genetically rare than the woman photographed and I bristled. Not from jealousy.

I have people constantly appraise my proportions and bring up my figure. That they feel emboldened to do this is precisely because of the cultural portrayal of women, seen through the male gaze and by extension, society's gaze. Pavlov's dog response, innit!

if one of the swimmers was going to be used it would have most likely have been the best looking.

Would it have been the best looking man, or the best looking woman, do you think?

As I’ve said before, if one of the swimmers was going to be used it would have most likely have been the best looking. Fact! Therefore this debate is not about the objectification of women.

Umm that is exactly what that proves.

@deydododatdodontdeydo exactly right. I’m 43 and I have a good body. Part genetics/part the fact I train a lot. The difference I suppose is that people who are larger are not seen as much in the media. Thankfully this is changing. What I find ridiculous about this debate is that it’s being disguised as a concern about objectification of the person in the photo. It isn’t at all about that.

@FrogsFrogs but the irony is you’re claiming to be pro woman/concerned about objectification , but all you’re doing is belittling a young attractive woman !!!! You don’t actually care that this woman is being “objectified”; you’re just upset that an attractive woman is being used!!!! As I’ve said before, if one of the swimmers was going to be used it would have most likely have been the best looking. Fact! Therefore this debate is not about the objectification of women. Stop kidding yourselves. It’s about the fact that older/less attractive people (in this case a woman) are not used enough to advertise/seen in the media. I can get behind that. What I can’t bear is hypocrisy.

I notice this all the time, especially in the popular science press that I often read for work

Of course any one image of a young, perfect-bodied woman in revealing outfit could be genuinely what the story is about and what someone really looks like - no one is suggesting removing all such images when they are relevant.

The point is that they are used all the time as decoration, when they are not relevant, and they are used more than corresponding images of men, different ages and body shapes, and fully dressed women.

The reason I hate is it because it's like saying "The readership that matters is the straight sexually appreciative male and he has to be kept titillated with pics of half dressed attractive women on a regular basis." To female readers it's the message that that's what women are for. Even when the content has nothing to do with sex or attraction. It's just anything. Obviously it's well known in advertising but also common in news and other journalism.

I have also seen attempts to not be like this though - where they will use older people and different looks, and not always show women in fewer clothes than man. Specsavers is one example.

Yes young attractive women are used to advertise everything because of the maternal factor 😁

That's so funny.

I mean that whole quote is just ridiculous!

I also like the idea that the response to the point 'it's odd that some people claim that women's bodies are objectively better to look at' is 'well I think they are so it's true'.

Some people maybe don't know what objective Vs subjective means.

This slagging off of men's bodies while getting worked up about imaginary criticism of women's bodies is peculiar as well.

All in all a lot of cobblers being posted.

Her body shape is normal, not skinny, but our view of what is normal has become twisted by the normalisation of obesity.

Even Elizabeth I was noted for retaining the body of a virgin ie not the normal body type for a middle aged female even at that time; it is not about obesity but the changes that childbearing and menopause make to the body and the failure to acknowledge that.

'It’s not about sex or sexuality. Women’s features in general are softer, smaller and there’s obviously the maternal factor.'

🤣🤣🤣

I'm middle aged and my body shape is similar to hers. Among my friendship group of middle aged women, many are, although some aren't.
My BMI is in the normal range.
And yet I get told I'm skinny all the time, online and in real life.
Body shaming works both ways - sometime people imply I have an eating disorder (I don't).
People can't see my chubby thighs with clothes on

phlossie
How nice to hear from someone who was actually there.
Your perspective gives us a better insight.

The editors add in what they think people want to see.
They often get it wrong yet they remain unperturbed by this.

Really interesting insight phlossie. My relatively small involvement with open water swimming has absolutely demonstrated that it's really gaining popularity amongst women in the 40+ demographic, and that the benefits for this group are huge and wide-ranging. It's a real shame the BBC didn't use an image of one of the women swimmers in your group, to draw the attention of women who might be thinking of taking it up.

Echoing other posters strongmummy. I don't think 'attractive women generate more attention' is an argument-winning point on a feminist discussion board. It's kind of the starting place for discussion rather than the end one.

Skinny was lazy choice of word: my point is that the woman in the bikini’s physique and pose is a poor representation of the subject of the article.

It’s not about normalising obesity (though there’s a difference between normalising obesity and making being obese less shameful, shame being a barrier to do something about it, eg taking up a healthy activity like swimming), it’s about not making middle aged women invisible.

Do you not like reading different opinions from other women

Not when it’s just is ‘I’m a feminist and that’s my opinion’, no.
Thought terminating cliche, mate.

And please don’t @ me.