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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New Year New Judicial Review? CPS Hate Crime Guidance for schools

309 replies

Spero · 24/01/2020 22:21

If you haven't seen this, I think you should.

www.faircop.org.uk/post/police-must-not-patrol-trans-discussion-in-schools

In brief, the CPS have published guidance about hate crimes in school - but won't let parents see the guidance. Its for teachers only. I've emailed for a copy and so have others. I have a child in the school system. I want to know how serious the risk is that she will be arrested and charged for discussing biology.

I think anyone else who is also worried should email the CPS and ask to see the guidance.

Teachers and schools can download the pack from this website. This is a resource for schools, so a password is required to download the pack. This can be requested by emailing [email protected].

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Michelleoftheresistance · 25/01/2020 18:54

It's creating an environment where teachers and pupils are encouraged to 'inform' on each other.

It makes you want to sit this lot of idiots down and explain to them in small words what the Hitler Youth was, why it was created and how it worked. And why anything even slightly reminiscent of its values should be cause for serious alarm.

But yes, the fact it's being intentionally kept from parents says everything anyone needs to know. Roll on the judicial review into this one too, this is political policing and I don't see how this even sits with the police's own brief about impartiality. It certainly doesn't sit with this week's conversations in the press about effectively decriminalising theft on the grounds of not enough time and resources. This is a whopping PR disaster on every level.

Uncompromisingwoman · 25/01/2020 18:44

That the CPS are advocating for secret information to be shared with children without parental knowledge or consent should be raising bloody red flags everywhere. What type of adult wants to talk with children in secret? What type of adult doesn't want parents to know about what they're "teaching" to children?

Clymene · 25/01/2020 16:44

This has made my blood run cold. The CPS publishing guidance to be used in schools which cannot be read by parents. It's so sinister Sad

theflushedzebra · 25/01/2020 16:22

It's creating an environment where teachers and pupils are encouraged to 'inform' on each other.

Well that's not terrifying at all.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/01/2020 16:08

Meanwhile:

*1/3 of 16-18 year old girls say they have experienced unwanted sexual touching at school

*59% of young women aged 13-21 say they had faced some form of sexual harassment at school or college in the past year

*600 rapes in schools were reported to police between 2012 and 2015 – an average of a rape every day of the school year.

*Nearly three-quarters (71%) of all 16-18 year olds say they hear terms like “slut” or “slag” used towards girls at school on a regular basis
24% 16-18-year-olds say that their teachers never said unwanted sexual touching, sharing of sexual pictures or sexual name calling are unacceptable

notfineinschool.org.uk/sexual-assault

It's almost as if some people are more equal than others...

CatalogueUniverse · 25/01/2020 15:22

Meanwhile in Scotland the government have a consultation open to allow self ID of gender at 16 after 3 months of identifying.

So a child who turns 16 has a gender reassignment certificate and is in school using the changing and toilet facilities which align with their LEGAL gender alongside children from 11-18. For over 2 years.

Using the standard rules for delayed entry which can be pushed further with specific reason the age gap is startling.

GRC child enters S6 in August at 17 and 8 months. Turns 18 in December and will leave school post exams in May at 18 and 5 months.

Child 2 enters S1 in August at 11 and 6 months.

I am fairly confident that there is a risk increase within that potential.

Now how about a school site which uses a swimming pool and sports facilities shared between primary and secondary children. Busy place. There will be overlap between the two groups going in and out. Currently changing/toilets are very clearly split by sex.

Are 4 year olds going to be accused of hate crimes for shouting Miss there is a boy/girl in the wrong changing room?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 25/01/2020 15:08

May I use my Lang of the Day on this one?

Rule 1 of Safeguarding: asking someone to keep secrets from parents is the biggest red flag there is... AKA Grooming 101

PaleBlueMoonlight · 25/01/2020 15:01

I suppose "online harassment" may not be easy to solve, depending on how obscured the identity of the perpetrator is, but I should imagine that harassment in a toilet or changing room would be, especially if the "perpetrator" merely thought that they were protecting their own protected characteristic.

Spero · 25/01/2020 14:58

As far as I know the CPS have no remit for social policy issues.
This is reminiscent of the Fair Cop JR when the Judge expressed surprise that the College of Policing kept seeing the police role as community mediators.

Yup. Told today that David Isaac was Chair of Stonewall. Just googled and yes he was from 2003 - 2012. So a lot is falling into place about how these priorities and focus have been developed.

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BovaryX · 25/01/2020 14:56

so found out today that David Isaac - former Chair of Stonewall - is now Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission

Seriously? Good grief

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 25/01/2020 14:50

What jurisdiction do the CPS have in terms of developing social policy? Isn't this yet more overreach?

It feels like it, doesn’t it? At a guess I’d say it’s driven by a very small number of highly motivated individuals within the CPS

PaleBlueMoonlight · 25/01/2020 14:47

It would be interesting to know what the crimes and incidents actually are. How many of the hate crimes are things like online harassment motivated by hate (in the eyes of the victin) and how many are murder? There must be something about the crimes themselves that are easier to solve and therefore it is worth doing it for the purposes of stats, rather than tackling difficult crimes like sexual assault. Are hate incidents recorded separately? Do they help with stats, given there is nothing to solve?

Spero · 25/01/2020 14:40

As they were one of main advisers I am going to go out on a limb here and say 'loads'.

Also found out today that David Isaac - former Chair of Stonewall - is now Chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

So absolutely nothing to see here.

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EmpressLangClegInChair · 25/01/2020 14:18

Is rape not a scourge on society ?

Well, to quote Ruth Hunt, men will always rape women. The implication being that it’s not worth trying to stop it happening.

I wonder how much input Stonewall had here?

littlbrowndog · 25/01/2020 14:11

Is rape not a scourge on society ?

GenderfreeLang · 25/01/2020 14:09

Rape and sexual assault convictions are at a shocking low of less than 2% iirc but according to CPS website...

"The CPS takes hate crime very seriously, and is determined to hold those responsible to account. In 2018-2019, the CPS secured convictions in 84% of the hate crime cases it prosecuted and, due to the severity of hate crime, the courts increased the sentences handed down in 74% of these convictions. This sends a clear message that hate crime is a scourge on Britain and will not be tolerated."

So CPS is determined to hold those who correctly sex to account but not sex offenders.

I am sure safe schools alliance will get hold of a copy no problem and with any luck so will Janice Turner, Sonia Poulton, James Kirkup...

Spero · 25/01/2020 13:57

Yes Fair Cop are aware and have issued this statement

www.faircop.org.uk/post/police-must-not-patrol-trans-discussion-in-schools

Safe School Alliance also aware and commenting.

I can only assume that they have got away with this kind of thing for so long that the penny hasn't dropped that things are different now.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/01/2020 13:25

But also the breathtaking assumption that women won't see that the violent, thuggish bullying man banging on the door of the toilet yelling what are you doing in there, you freak, can't, the very next day, have access to as many women as they like, by identifying as one.

The manipulation was frightening.

YY exactly, Datun. Great point.

littlbrowndog · 25/01/2020 13:24

But why is it secret ?

Is therevs something in it that can’t be seen ?

Why can’t people see the guide ?

Are parents not to be trusted.

Can teachers be parents ?

Why the secrecy

Mockers2020Vision · 25/01/2020 13:18

Yes Arran

And I was thinking of this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_Trial

The reference to the poem is that, like the jews, the biologists tend to be the canary in the coal mine. They wrongly get the blame for Neodarwinism. 'Race' is their word, and never mind if they've stopped using it. The Left accuse them of justifying 'law of the jungle' capitalism while the Right accuse them of denying God.

They also study species morphology, chiroptology and scatology, but are not responsible for genderist batshit.

GenderfreeLang · 25/01/2020 13:11

Trying to keep this secret from parents is very sinister and unlikely to succeed.

Datun · 25/01/2020 13:08

Ereshkigalangcleg

Scenario: An MTF trans person enters a women's toilet, where a couple of school girls ask why the person is in the toilet as it is not the toilet appropriate for their sex. The MTF trans person then goes to the male toilets where they are confronted by some stereotypical thuggish men.

... The most physically threatening man bangs on the toilet door, yelling “what you doing in there? You freak!” No teenager, male or female, would want to align themselves with the views of these old past-it men who clearly represent ‘old-fashioned ignorance.’

I remember reading this. It was the first time a genuine thud of fear contracted in my chest.

The CPS. The bloody CPS. All reasonable, rational, kind and articulate on the telly. And all sneaky, deceitful, sexist and intimidating in real life.

And not just the utterly misogynistic scenario that yes, young girls and women should be responsible for protecting men from male violence. Practically ordering schoolgirls to shoulder this mantle.

But also the breathtaking assumption that women won't see that the violent, thuggish bullying man banging on the door of the toilet yelling what are you doing in there, you freak, can't, the very next day, have access to as many women as they like, by identifying as one.

The manipulation was frightening.

And, of bloody course, keeping this guidance secret is going to backfire spectacularly.

It's very worrying that they do not understand that the result of desperately trying to keep something secret is guaranteed to have everyone shining a spotlight on it.

Uncompromisingwoman · 25/01/2020 13:06

What jurisdiction do the CPS have in terms of developing social policy? Isn't this yet more overreach? Who oversees them? Or are they so powerful that they are untouchable and not subject to any scrutiny or democratic accountability? They can just implement the wishes of their friends in Stonewall and boring things like the Nolan principles of public life don't apply to them?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/01/2020 12:46

I think in 2017 it was full on Stonewall law training sessions and none of this was really being challenged or in the public eye. Only gender critical feminists were interested and it hadn't gone mainstream so they thought they could get away with anything.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/01/2020 12:44

Somebody’s realised that the public reaction to the last guidance didn’t fit with their plans, so they’re trying to do what’s always worked for them before. Slip the new version in quietly.

Absolutely, Empress.

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