School policies that encourage girls to take responsibility for male behaviour

FixTheBon

Wowe, nice attitude.

The most common clothing worn by a woman or girl prior to rape is Jeans and a T shirt.

Women who wear burkas are raped.

But as it is all down to clothing, just how many women and girls have you raped? Because if it is about clothing then you must have assaulted a lot of people.

2. No underwear should be visble above, below or through clothing

The problem with that is most school shirts are thin white poly cotton, no problem for boys but you can see bras through them. So do you have girls going without a bra?

But I've taught more in FE than schools so I find students and teachers manage without a uniform or with the minimal uniform some settings have (polo shirt and jeans).

what would you say about a female teacher telling a 13yr old girl not to wear shorts on a school camping trip because of the impact it will have on male teachers.

How insulting to her male colleagues!

Skirt length can be too short in my opinion - and its worse in school than the office, as for some subjects they use high stools. the stools are used in Science and Practical subjects, as they get less in the way when carrying out practical tasks.
However having worked in schools I complain just as much about boys whose bums hang out of the back of their trousers.
If there is a problem with shorts it should be the same for both sexes.
And in practical subjects: anyone with long hair should tie it back, ties should be tucked into shirts, and only closed toe shoes should be worn.

But some schools are sexist or thoughtless.

Excuse typos

But tea

You are already screwed if you are tall and/or particularly skinny with those rules.

Shirt sleeved shirts dont reach the elbow . Kids shoukdt have to roast in.long sleeved shirts theres nothing special for sexual about an arm

If you are large of chest your shirt will potentially have to be a bugger size meaning more exposure around the neck/collar area. Particularly if no tie is required and girls wear revere shirts .

If you are tall and have a 22 inch skirt then its gonna be short.

Common.sense needs to be applied

it is relatively easy to design unisex rules

1.The body must be covered from neck to 10cm above knee and arms to the elbows, whether you wear skirts, shorts or trousers. unless in PE where normal sportswear is required

1. No underwear should be visble above, below or through clothing
2. long hair must be tied back neatly

I find uniforms really difficult, I'm a teacher, our school has uniform and is pretty relaxed about it. We'd not send a child home unless they were wearing something completely different. We say skirts need to be no shorter than mid thigh. Girls wear skirts so short if they bend forward they risk showing underwear. Female teachers are most annoyed at skirts too short. I get it's not clothing that's the problem, but clothes do impact how people see us don't they. If we ditched uniform it would be easier I think because everyone would probably be in jeans.

it's very uncomfortable for some male teachers when dealing with girls who are wearing revealing clothes. Not because of the risk of doing something inappropriate, but because accusations can happen so easily
How does a girl wearing revealing clothes make accusations more likely?

Male teachers should be capable of looking at a girl's face rather than her body and complaining that he finds it uncomfortable..

Abuse and inappropriate behaviour is not based on attractiveness or sexuality anyway. A paedo is interested in kids whether they are fully covered or in a bathing suit.

A teacher eyeing up underage girls and attracted to their short skirts would constitute a paedo.

Non paedos dont eye up childrenn no matter how short their skirts

And predators dont give a shit what you wear

Standards of dress that are respectful towards people are also about maintaining an environment that puts the focus on things other than sexual attractiveness or which sees harassment as inappropriate

But this insinuates that it's the clothes that are the problem. That somehow it's the clothes that bring on the Harassment. Which is not true. Naked ,bikini or burka it's not ok. It's never ok.

Cost will also be a big factor. Dds skirt costs 18.50. At that price shes wearing it til it falls apart whether it's down to her knees or half way up her thighs

You cant expect people to fork out on new skirts the second their kids grow a couple if inches.

If theres going to be a uniform it needs to be affordable practical and easily available. And with a wide enough range to ensure all body shapes can be catered for. The same trousers can look like baggy combats on one kid and skinny trousers on another .

Uniform policies are often responsible for alot of body shaming. You cannot expect everyone to fit the same item the same way.

I don't think those things are really mutually exclusive. Standards of dress that are respectful towards people are also about maintaining an environment that puts the focus on things other than sexual attractiveness or which sees harassment as inappropriate.

As far as uniforms that are poorly designed, yes, that can be a problem but it can also be addressed. I don't think consistency means that we should expect the same thing in different settings, PE shorts might well be shorter than skirts n the classroom, or cover more than swimsuits on a trip to a pool.

As far as the students themselves, I expect some will always push against the boundaries, that is just normal for teens. Sometimes they do it for the sake of rebelling, or other times because they are not mature enough to understand why they are there. It doesn't mean the boundaries are wrong though.

They aren’t out on the town trying ‘to pull’ or go out clubbing. They are children at school

So see through shirts are ok
Blazers that are hot and sweaty but get kept on even In summer because of said see through shirts. They are Made to wear tiny skorts in pe, denied the one style if trouser that even stands a chance of fitting ( skinny trousers ) and are used in many schools as behaviour management in their seating positions, but suddenly a skirt length is a problem?

Maybe if uniform.acknowledged the female body and could be adapted to make the girls feel like they should actually be there and not just an after thought they may have more confidence and a sense if belonging and not feel that the only way to have any control over anything is to wear these short skirts. And if more was done to combat the harassment girls face at school they might feel like they are worth something and not only good for showing their knickers...

Just a thought

I’ll probably get shot down for this but ultimately these young ladies are still deemed children and often look way older than they are. I sat in an assembly and the majority of the girls had skirts so short they couldn’t sit in a chair and move without leaving anything to the imagination. I personally think skirts should be knee length. They aren’t out on the town trying ‘to pull’ or go out clubbing. They are children at school.

@sashh

No evidence, other than being a man and knowing men.

But, I guess you're right, I'll send my 13 year old out in underwear. Sure shell be fine.....

Got it sash, sorry,

I do also think it can be difficult to get reasonable fitting women's clothes

I find it interesting that schools ban skirts above the knee until the girls are in a PE lesson. Obviously PE teachers can cope with girls in shorts.

feetfreckles

I think you misunderstood me, clothes that fit look different on different frames. Trousers that fit a female figure will normally have a narrower waist than hips, which some head teachers seem to have a problem with.

Should we separate out thinking about the general rules that apply to clothing ( you can get arrested for not wearing clothes ) and the rules that are applied to females and not to males?

So appropriate , professional dress tends to cover males and females. In many organisations that would mean long loose but not baggy trousers, loose but not baggy shirts with long shelves, perhaps a tie or jacket. a skirt or dress that is also long enough and loose enough would also be allowed.

it's not about forcing ill fitting and uncomfortable things as implied above. Nor does having curves mean your clothes need to be tight. Cut appropriately they won't cling round the boob and bum., they don't need to be tighter on females than males as implied above

If an adult male is effected by seeing girls in shorts he should be no where near girls in shorts!!!

I would be taking that up with the school if I was the parent on grounds of victim blaming and red flag that there is potentially a male working at the school who the teacher has concerns about.

In the real world wearing revealing clothes makes girls/women more attractive to paedophiles/men respectively.

Do you have any evidence for that.

OP

I'd be asking the school about their duty of care and safeguarding.

I have in the past refused to police girls' trousers, we were told to check each morning in form time. I said I didn't feel comfortable with

a) inspecting a child's bum

b) inspecting girls and not boys and

c) it was only a minority of students who didn't follow the uniform code and treating 50% or pupils badly for 2 or 3 was unfair.

|The 2-3 who were a problem were wearing leggings so not exactly difficult to spot.

I may have told another head teacher that 'girls have curves' and that if he looked at a group of squaddies the female soldiers would appear to have tighter uniforms when it was exactly the same uniform.

Thats the difficulty i found with dds skirts sarah

Her rolling them up didnt help at all either

But even rolling didnt make them as short as some!!

And as she developed she need need to have it explained to her that all clothes looked very different on her than on her less developed friends...even at 12

The slim thing

Stupid auto correct