Lisa Nandy: Trans women are women

The trans issue is just one example where basis ideas have been turned into word salad and all sense of rational debate abandoned and with no idea of why safeguarding systems were set up and what purpose they served.

Safeguarding framework failures are being reported in so many places where children & vulnerable adults should & could be protected.

What is happening are some of the consequences of these Safeguarding failures, there will be many more.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

Oh FFS. If she doesn't understand why women both deserve and NEED a word that means women, she needs more education herself.

Exactly what @RedToothBrush said! Middle class straight white men are not the most oppressed class on the planet but somehow here we are

No one will make labour leader if they don’t say TW=W so it’s all a bit self selective really

As a lifelong Conservative voter, I should be celebrating the idiocy of the Labour leadership candidates and their sellout of the entire female electorate to please the tiny woke brigade, but I’m not.
Any democracy needs a strong healthy opposition, otherwise it becomes a dangerously totalitarian one party state. Labour making themselves unelectable for the foreseeable future is a risk to all of us. And I grieve at their stupidity.

Ikr? At the moment thinking Keir Starmer as he's said the least stupid and objectionable things. But Christ that's a low bar.

Im the same age as nandy, that's drivel.

And I'm so pro her otherwise!

Lazy ageism particularly annoying.

Comments about electoral suicide - I think it's quite staggering that outside of Mumsnet when I talk about this, people have absolutely no idea how much of the electorate this issue influences in terms of voting.

Tbh its not so much about the trans thing but the 'woke at the expense of critical thinking' and lack of interest in problems which don't involve the 'right victim' in terms of identity politics.

Its all about the presentation of showing to the world how enlightened you are about oppression rather than getting off your arse to actually deal with real life inequality and injustice. Particularly the blindness to economic inequality and how that can be much more of a barrier than other identities. Eg a well educated middle class kid from an ethic background is being given special status in media circles such as the BBC over and above a white kid from a deprieved town who went to a crap school and didn't get such good grades and therefore their opportunities have been limited by this.

The trans issue is just one example where basis ideas have been turned into word salad and all sense of rational debate abandoned and with no idea of why safeguarding systems were set up and what purpose they served.

This was Nandy before the car crash that was Jo Swinson's election campaign. To be honest, even if she backtracked now, I would not be convinced that it's anything other than cynical attempt to get the older female vote. The contempt for older people who apparently don't get it is staggering. What are you going to do, Lisa, send us all off to a gulag for re-education?

Oh for goodness sake. I just joined the labour party so I could vote in these elections and hopefully be one of the many women who want to turn them around but they are really making it bloody difficult.

There was no applause from the audience for David Davis' views and I didn't like the people wanting to ban gender critical voices from the House of Commons.

Keir Starmer: (paraphrasing) ‘mumble mumble, vulnerable group, mumble mumble extremely small extremely vulnerable group, mumble mumble, protect vulnerable people from being a political football, mumble’.

I find this utterly baffling. That an adult woman, who presumably has used single sex spaces, and who has some idea of the extreme vulnerability of women in refuges, hospitals, prisons, and of girls on Girl Guide trips, in boarding school etc can deny that David Davies is talking sense, and insist that TWAW , I just can’t understand how that happens.
In what way are TWW ? In what way is the male person saying he is female, different from the male person not saying that ? In what way is person A not a threat to women and girls, while person B remains a risk ?

No scrap that, you're right. I've just googled it and he did say something really stupid. Sod them all i've never voted Labour and it seems i never will.

@jadefinch what's Keir Starmer actually say on the matter? If he can spend 10 years defending Helen Steele and lots of time improving treatment of sexual assault victims as DPP I'm not quite sure how that could be a fair assessment of his true position?

Love the categorisation @jadefinch! It was the look of panic in RLB's eyes as she said it - clearly knew it was drivel but will do anything for votes.

And yes @Lookingforpizza I know a fair few of the woke brigade of all ages, but they are a tiny minority (and already voted green or labour at the last election). You need to convince the voters who didn't vote labour, and they totally don't think self ID is a good idea when they become aware of it.

Electoral suicide, but who cares as purity is all that matters.

Comments about electoral suicide - I think it's quite staggering that outside of Mumsnet when I talk about this, people have absolutely no idea how much of the electorate this issue influences in terms of voting.

Granted I am mid 20s, and would say the majority of my friends and peers are on the "woke" side. But they genuinely haven't even considered the proportion of female voters who either won't vote or will vote elsewhere because of this.

Once again David Davies has the courage to point out reasonable concerns. Thank you to him. The other women are an utter disgrace. Trans women are trans women.

I a 49 year old woman need to have what a woman is explained to me by a woke teenager with blue hair

I do also fight the urge to ask people like Rebecca, these people that don't get it: can we do a quick head count?

What are their jobs? What do they do all day? Let's look at what they provide to society in terms of services/tax
Are they raising families? What are they providing to society there?
What life experience broadly speaking are they drawing on when they say this is nuts and not something that is ever going to work?
Police record - what's been the cost here from those people in terms of time, money, consumption of dealing with crimes committed, reported, outcomes etc. Are these people with that good old fashioned idea of people generally supporting safeguarding and law and order, with no record of harm to others?

Now can we do the same headcount on those advising on these policies?

Is there any difference I wonder?

(Not patronising you there Neuro , that was directly to Rebecca and I don't mean to patronise her either, but the more I hear people come out with this kind of half baked nonsense the more I really do have to bite back the urge to ask if their mummy's there to speak to)

Well colour me shocked!! None of them truly believe a man can be a woman - they just know they have to say it. It’s laughable and frightening at the same time

And yes the ageism fucks me off so much. Yes I a 49 year old woman need to have what a woman is explained to me by a woke teenager with blue hair

She says herself in the prog that people her age don't understand it.

And why do people with fully developed frontal cortexes and a few decades of additional life experience think this is insane love?

Nice bit of ageism thrown in for good measure

If Labour don’t get their act together they may well end up destroying themselves utterly.