Lisa Nandy: Trans women are women

The message last time round was full of notions of countering the false consciousness of the oppressed peasants who were wrong to blame migrants for the queues at the doctors, wrong to support Brexit, wrong to want to lock more people up for longer, etc.

Indeed. The current Labour leadership gives the impression that it views the working class with contempt. I'm sure someone will be right along to tell me that they're correct about the working class having the wrong views, but the thing is that Labour cannot win a general election without the voters that they're currently addressing with blatant contempt and open hostility (while claiming to represent them). So either they figure out how to stop coming across that way or they become a permanent opposition party.

stories = Tories

Wine Ha! I think you do student journalism a disservice, as students often at least make an attempt at balance...

The stories are swiftly rowing back TheReal although they did create it in the first place.

Are there any mainstream political parties that are opposed to self-ID at the moment? I know of only one but they don’t put up many candidates.

@Rubidium what on earth was that article, it was like reading a student newspaper!

I'm really disappointed in Lisa Nandy on this, I respect not everyone agrees with the GC viewpoint on this issue but her line seems to be really one sided with seemingly no thought for why people may have concerns.

*The GRA was not intended and has not been designed to support anyone who identifies as trans during their transition. That's not its purpose. It was designed to protect those who had fully transitioned from having to out themselves and to allow them to marry a same-sex partner.

And despite what the Scottish and UK governments are telling us about 'international best practice', according to a recent ruling in the European Court of Human Rights the GRA in its present form aligns with international best practice. A self-ID process would not.

The court ruled that a diagnosis of gender dysphoria should be required before allowing a change of legally recognised sex. It also ruled that no surgery should be required - which is already the case under the current GRA. It did not rule in favour of self-ID with no gatekeeping, which is what the Scottish Government is currently proposing in its draft legislation.

Reforming the GRA to bring in self-id will not support anyone while they transition either. As Stonewall et al keep telling us, that is merely an inconsequential admin change.

Simultaneously a minor bit of admin and a law which is of enormous importance to transgender people. It can't be both.

Nandy stated:

The Gender Recognition Act, in the experience that she's had and I've had is stigmatising, it's far far too long, and it leaves people without support at the moment that they most need it.

Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear.

Why can't politicians first try to inform themselves about a law before pronouncing it as a failure?

The GRA was not intended and has not been designed to support anyone who identifies as trans during their transition. That's not its purpose. It was designed to protect those who had fully transitioned from having to out themselves and to allow them to marry a same-sex partner.

Reforming the GRA to bring in self-id will not support anyone while they transition either. As Stonewall et al keep telling us, that is merely an inconsequential admin change.

Very few people do in this whole thing, it’s all about a small number of very vocal TW (as far as I’m aware, not all TW are ‘for’ self-ID).

There doesn’t seem to be much of a TMAM movement at all, does there?

She doesn't acknowledge trans men.

Oh dear.

From the Open Labour hustings:
www.indy100.com/article/lisa-nandy-labour-leadership-trans-lgbt-jess-phillips-9303731
Well I think that's unequivocal. Oh dear.

Have to say, after pondering, has Nandy stated TWAW since running for leader?

I'm just wondering if it's an area she will avoid hammering her colours to the mast for.

I very much hope her team are reading this board and have their "listening ears on."

Ah sorry DuLANG!

I meant, different story in terms of me blabbing my mouth on t’internet!

I totally agree re: lack of trust in politicians.
The two deputy contest people I refer to seem to be in the foothills of the peaks, rather than absolute and not having the courage to say it.

Once they are in role, different story.
Why should I believe a word they say? One of the qualities I would always look for in a leader / deputy leader is courage. Another quality is - well... leadership.

Although I do worry that anyone even vaguely GC will be piled on, a la Laura Pidcock. exactly.

I have wondered that but she's not a close mate of mine, and not frequently in touch with Nandy. She mentioned the brexit thing at a random house party recently. I've seriously considered contacting Nandy myself. But I'm not in labour and no idea if I'd be taken seriously.

Can you get the mutual friend to ask about TWAW v TWAT?

Although I do worry that anyone even vaguely GC will be piled on, a la Laura Pidcock.

I’ve heard two of the deputy candidates have serious reservations re: the clash of women’s rights and trans rights, but wouldn’t want to post publicly about it in case it makes them less likely to win the membership.
Once they are in role, different story.
That said, not all of the membership are so out of step with the public, at least not up north.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/26/why-should-keir-starmer-aside---his-rivals-have-few-feminist-credentials

Interesting article as I can see flaws. Namely that Stramer is not a feminist as TWAW.

Nandy is not personally at ease with brexit at all. I know this via a mutual friend. If she didn't show some support for it she would have lost her seat, and labour needed her to stay.

I can't help feeling the same exists with TWAW in that they have to pick and choose the perceived "least damaging" lefty things to include in their campaign.

Also, as a pp has said, the radio 4 programme was pre Swinson.

Quite.

Brexit was a part of the same phenomenon, rather than a cause.

That sums up nicely how I feel about them. They have forgetten or simply ceased to care about their core voters. In fact it is worse than that, they refer to them as "bigoted" when it suits them.

Yes, and this is a massive problem in Western democracies at the moment.

From Matthew Goodwin via Twitter:

“Centre-left at latest election

UK Labour
Lowest seats since 1935

Austria
Lowest since 1945

Germany
2nd lowest since 1949

France
Lowest ever

Italy
Lowest ever

Netherlands
Lowest ever

Sweden
Lowest since 1908

Finland
2nd lowest since 1962

Maybe it's not just about Brexit?”

TheRealMcKenna

"The current Labour candidates are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If they said “We are going to end free movement of people, commit to reducing immigration and I believe biological sex exists” they would probably instantly win the support of many disenfranchised Labour voters. However, there is no way that the current Labour membership would support them."

That sums up nicely how I feel about them. They have forgetten or simply ceased to care about their core voters. In fact it is worse than that, they refer to them as "bigoted" when it suits them.

I thought the use of language from the tories around GRA this week was interesting. When Dawn Butler raised a question in Parliament, the answer started with 'protecting' women's spaces, mentioned the rights of 'adult' trans people. Interesting...must have rattled Dawn Butler.

Getting further to the triggernometry interview, it's really bang on analysis.

I hope Lisa or her team come across it and watch it, her background and education do mean that she both has the capacity to understand what he's saying. She's also one of the 'types' of middle class MPs he names as the problem.

Though I can't help feeling that if politicians are required to have a good ability to think critically about these types of analysis they do need highly educated people on their teams or to be highly educated and have those skills to transfer analysis to practical politics.