Douglas Murray on denunciations and Lawrence Fox

It turns out that Martin Shapland is well known on twitter for his racist remarks about white people.

twitter.com/search?q=@mshapland&ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Esearch

What was interesting I thought about that Guardian article was that it began by recognising firstly that Fox was articulating a mainstream opinion, and secondly that the woke needed to wake up.
But it was as if O'Hagan couldnt bear to think that through so she retreated behind the usual lazy, ageist lines about bigotry, that sadly I've come to expect from The Guardian.

I think, as others have said, that 'cancel culture' and the growing Americanisation of public life - as well as the instantaneous nature of social media - have played a big role in bringing us to this sorry state. Look at the Alistair Stewart case for a current example. If the choice is between nuance and a baying Twitter mob, the latter will win every time. It's just not worth the risk of taking them on.

..and specifically, how did we get here despite 10 years of the Conservatives being in government?

It is not incidental that accusations of racism and bigotry have assumed such prominence. It is a deliberate tactic of the # no debate crew. You can see examples of it on this very thread.

that is the situation now, how those words are being used. But that usage is predicated on the accusations themselves already holding a lot of power. That happened before the current climate became overheated.

Something that always sticks in my mind when contemplating this is a passage from a P.D. James novel. One of the characters, a female police officer, is thinking about her education in a secular state school that served a mainly underprivileged kids from housing estates. She says that the only real philosophy or religion they were taught was anti-racism, and everyone getting along, and that this was heavily pushed. Which she seems to think is as good a religion as any.

That's not anything like a full explanation, but I think it's an interesting and largely accurate observation on the part of the author with regard to public education. SometimesI wonder if it isn't meant as a sort of pacification endeavour for the masses but then I think I am getting into tin-foil hat territory.

But my basic question is, how did we get to a place when an accusation of bigotry or racism is just accepted almost without real examination, and that people are so desperate to avoid such an accusation that they will undertake significant mental or social gymnastics to do so?

Substitute the words 'racist' and 'bigot' with 'capitalist roader' or 'bourgeoisie' , then you can see lots of parallels of the dynamics of how this could play out in the Cultural Revolution of Communist China. And it is scary.

This DM article abour Alistair Stewart is worth skimming

mol.im/a/7946269

It hits a good score on the identity politics bingo: 'white privilege', LibDems etc. Stewart's colleagues seem to standing up for him against the bosses.

I’m cautiously optimistic. The fact that this is a thread in the Feminism section and the title has the trigger words ‘Douglas Murray’ in it and there have been barely any accusations of ISLAMOPHOBE or MISOGYNIST shows that there is a willingness out there to challenge the accepted ‘woke’ narrative and debate the issues more sensibly.

If this thread had been created three years ago I think the discussion would have been very different.

The Guardian has been going after the 'liberal' American market for some time now. A lot of its journalism in the past 5 years or so needs to be read in that context.

Comments allowed on guardian twitter site. Generally not woke friendly.

That must be the 100th article in The Guardian about Laurence Fox - he must be absolutely loving it as 2 weeks ago most people didn't know who he was.

The article is a bit of a word salad, and of course no comments allowed, but the funny thing is that so many Guardian hacks come from a middle class, privately educated, Oxbridge set not dissimilar to Fox's 'white privilege'.

The Guardian is not letting up on the Laurence Fox story. This has a bit of casual ageism in it, not unexpected stuff from this rag.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/30/anti-woke-backlash-liberalism-laurence-fox

"Primarily, older, white, homeowners and pensioners"

As the aftermath of the general election showed, the "woke" left has no ability to self reflect. Apparently Jeremy Corbyn is going to start a tour of the Labour heartlands in the North, to lecture them about socialism - good luck on that Jezzer, I suggest you kick off with Blythe.

The Students from Asian backgrounds are outperforming the rest in American unis. Getting the best scholarships, best results, but on the Yale video were calling themselves oppressed coloureds, apart from Grace.
In reply to Good grief.
Yes. Yes there are. Nobody said there weren't I don't think?
And God FORBID a man might get pissed off at all the talk of women's rights because he didn't get the top job either
That's it then. FWR, shut up shop. A man might be pissed off somewhere.

That man might be your son who has spent a year job hunting or your husband.
I was pointing out a fact not saying it shouldn't happen, pointing it out as obviously there are winners and losers in this and it's unlikely the losers will cheer on the winners.

It seems to be due in a big part to the public shaming phenomenon on social media. Anything that ever happens, some twat is filming it and uploading it, others are commenting on it and rating it. Add that to cancel culture and intersectional politics, and bobs your uncle, fanny's your aunt.

It comes back to that question though, how did accusations like racist and bigot gain that power? It almost seems like they are magical words that you invoke to take away the power of your enemies.

The most interesting part of the video to me was the girl who said (not exact words) that it’s less of a risk to be a protester and be wrong than to be considered a racist.

You could easily substitute ‘racist’ with ‘misogynist’ or ‘transphobe’ to describe why so many people stay silent on all sorts of issues they feel strongly about.

Nauticant
As a 'woman of a certain age' I decided to study for a degree. Visited a university, used the GN loo, looked around at all the students, and decided to go to the local college instead. Best decision. No regrets.

TheRealMcKenna

My wife has told me plenty of stories about her university in Tehran at the start of the revolution. Some students were smashing windows in the cafeteria and half a dozen police turned up with riot batons. I think students in Iran today have far more serious issues to protest than dining cards. That was the most surreal part of the video as far as I am concerned.

nauticant

"By the time I was done I felt like my grip on reality was much weaker than it had been."

That's also for you shedquarters. How to lose 5+ hours of your time and end up utterly disillusioned about what universities are now for.

andyoldlabour: a while back I went through all of Benjamin Boyce's Complete Evergreen videos over a couple of weeks.

www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRdayXEOwuMG9DG66Bvx6YbUnhw-buS5K.

By the time I was done I felt like my grip on reality was much weaker than it had been.