Kicked out of club for wearing LGB Alliance Tshirt

See this is why I'm no longer on Twitter. It's all so bloody ridiculous.

Sexuality and gender are 2 completely separate things and should never be lumped together in the first place, all it does is blur the individual needs so that none are represented effectively as perfectly demonstrated here.

Respecting someone is a different thing to trying to controlling someone else's behaviour.

This is the missing part of the debate and one that a lot of people are not willing to admit or acknowledge.

RedToothBrush

Quite so. I think the use of hate slogan by many on that Twitter thread is revelatory. It reminds me of something Harry Miller said in the Trigger interview. It's about compelled speech and control. And the farcical comparisons on Twitter confirm this. White power? Anti semitism? The same as LBG? It's ludicrous. But it's also actually quite alarming.

‘Attacked and excluded’ by words in a woman’s T-shirt.

Yes because that’s exactly what we see every day. Hounded on social media, made to lie in public, forced to agree to non reality, be shouted at and abused for their beliefs, having meetings cancelled - or having to run the gauntlet to attend...

Yup ‘attacking and excluding’ alright. 🙄

Being explicitly supportive of trans doesn't mean you have to sleep with someone you don't want to.

I think people have forgotten this.

You can be supportive of trans people without having to sleep with them to prove it.

Does rather seem like one rule for one and an another for everyone else.

One thing that's apparent from the Twitter link is that hate speech has been redefined to mean anything which isn't explicitly supportive of trans. No matter how lacking in hate. Comparing an LGB t shirt to anti semitism? Delusional

This idea is great, though, and one I'm sure lots of people will be happy to get behind! Third spaces for women, mixed sex, and males. Hooray, we're all on the same page, then!

The problem here is an unwillingness to respect differences and that people can have differences and still be respectful.

The problem lies in refusing to accept material reality can not be changed and that people need to be free to say no to sexual partners for whatever reason they chose without justifying their choices.

It is not like wearing a lesbian t shirt

You mean like the definition of ones that got a group of women kicked out of the National Theatre bar during Pride week?

Nobody can explain the difference in T-shirts.
Wonder why that is.

'It is policy that anyone removed from the club will be put out of the back entrance and if they have stuff/friends/coats/bags etc then they are told to walk around to the main door to meet with the bouncers who will have gathered belongings and notified friends.'

I'm genuinely interested how the bouncers know which is their stuff and who are their friends?

The LBG Alliance specifically says that sex is more important than gender.

No it doesn't. It says that sexual attraction is important and should be respected by everyone.

That doesn't mean its more important than gender.

If you are trans and that's your identity, your sex is still important to your identity whether you admit it or not. Your trans identity is defined by your sex. You can not be trans without reference to your sex.

Even if you are trans you should still respect the boundaries of others and understand sexual attraction is different for different groups. Sexual attraction is different to respecting identity.

There are trans people who are attracted to the same sex and those who are attracted to a different sex.

But your trans status doesn't allow you to dictate who is attracted to you and what others will find attractive in you.

Homosexuality is about sex. It always will be. It's deeply human.

No one should be being pressured to go against their human desires and sexual preferences for the sake of political correctness.

Lesbians should be allowed to exclude males regardless of how they identify. This is OK to say. It should be respected. The fact its not says a lot.

Anyone who is trans should respect this desire and understand why its important.

I can not decide I'm gay if im female and trans. Nor can someone say they are lesbian if they are male and trans. You just can't be because of material reality. It might be hard at times but that's just the way it is. You can't always have what you want in life because you demand it and respecting others means you should be able to have personal sexual boundaries where you can say no.

It isn't a personal attack or slight on others to state your sexuality and personal boundaries. It is coercive control and abuse to force your identity on others against their sexual boundaries.

Respect for others needs to acknowledge that sex is material reality and doesn't disappear even if you wish it to. It still exists. We can try to respect people for who they are better in many situations but this does always require an acknowledgement that when it comes to intimacy you can not avoid sexual reality. Trying to do so, harms others.

As a bisexual woman, I find transgender ideology extremely offensive and I do not like the overt political nature of various trans organisations like Scottish Trans Alliance who seem to have their fingers everywhere.

Adherents of transgender ideology impose their viewpoints on MY identity and have twisted bisexuality to be about gender rather than attraction to both sexes.

Yet I have never complained about all the trans banners, stickers and flags that permeate LGBT venues and bisexual events and I would never want to kick out a person wearing t-shirts with trans related messages that I don't agree with.

Maybe I should be complaining that their ideological messages offend me greatly and I wish to see some action taken against them?
Why do queer and trans people think they can colonise the meaning of bisexuality in the first place? I didn't consent to such a misappropriation.

One that is a T-shirt to a group that actively excludes a group, not fine

In which case that whole club should be closed down. Did people not say it was a LGBT club? How hateful of them to exclude me and my group (heterosexuals)!

One that is a T-shirt to a group that actively excludes a group, not fine.

Please explain this to me.

I wear a Scottish Trans Alliance t-shirt

This is a group which solely advocates for the T and who do not include advocating for LGB aims in their remit.

I wear an LGB Alliance t-shirt

This is a group which solely advocates for the LGB and who do not include advocating for T aims in their remit.

Both groups do so because they seek to ensure that policymaking meets their needs (which are not the same) and because they perceive certain policies to be directly harmful to their interests.

You are happy for me to wear the first but not the second t-shirt.

I should add - in the interests of an open debate - that the Scottish Trans Alliance openly opposes aims by other protected groups including those covered under religion, ethnicity, disability, sex and sexuality, just as the LGB Alliance openly opposes aims by those covered under gender reassignment. So in that sense, again, there is no difference between these two groups.

They're both political advocacy groups, too.

Is there any reason apart from your clear support for transgender ideology and legislation why you oppose the legitimacy of one organisation but not the other?

I have been to many nights in Polo Glasgow and I know some of the bouncers there.

It is policy that anyone removed from the club will be put out of the back entrance and if they have stuff/friends/coats/bags etc then they are told to walk around to the main door to meet with the bouncers who will have gathered belongings and notified friends.

From watching the video (the building in the background) she has been put out the back and made her way to the front.

I just wanted to mention this in regards to her being put out without her stuff. (Regardless of the rights or wrongs of her being put out)

tellmewhen
It didn't.
That's why there's no clearer message that this whole movement is fucked up.
There's something really really bad, misogynistic and hateful happening, that's for sure, but it isn't coming from L G or B people.

Clearly I'm thick but please someone tell me why the t shirt carried a hateful or provocative slogan?

Given that LGBTQ+ also includes those with sexual development disorders (despite them not particularly wanting inclusion) I'm not entirely sure the movement as a whole does regard sex is irrelevant. Also given that most G won't accept T as sexual partners again I don't think you can claim the movement is entirely gender focussed.

Trans ideology says that gender is more important than sex. Is that controversial?

The difference, of course, is that only one of them is true.

@alias which is controversial as you know.

sex is more important than gender.

The LBG Alliance specifically says that sex is more important than gender

...and?