Trans women in womens toilet

Justhadathought

What do you think would have happened if, as you claim, you'd have "said, fairly discreetly, " This is the ladies.......""?

To whom would you have said it? How would you make your speech 'discreet'? What result would you have been hoping for? Do you think this would have made the transwoman meekly go into the gents' toilet? Do you think something else might have happened? Or would you just have made your comment sotto voce so that no-one actually heard it? If so, what would be the point of that?

Personally, I'd have been scared and walked away to find another loo, possibly in another venue altogether if the one in question only had 'mixed gender' facilities. I WOULD NOT have spoken up due to fear and intimidation. From what we are told happened that would have been the right decision if I didn't want to be shouted at by both the transwoman and several baying supporters and also get myself thrown out of the venue :(

You see, I would

In the first instance I would not have made a huge scene out of it, but I would have said, fairly discreetly, " This is the ladies

And for another response, I would have walked away, gone to a different loo, or just left the place entirely.
Sometimes just discreetly saying anything could get you hurt.

@LuisaRey I’m not gender critical. I dont want to share loos with men. I also know that some men dress as women (not the same as being a trans woman) so it’s not always possible to tell someone gender just by looking at the way they present themselves. I wouldn’t have spoken in this instance because I wouldn’t want to be in bed in a scene. Silence isn’t acceptance.

They don't pop out of reality. What would you like them to do

the obvious solution is to have mixed sex toilets for those that want them or are perfectly happy using them, and also retain single sex facilities for those that don't. The onus should be on trans people and their allies to campaign for this provision, rather than moving in on the spaces that women have managed to secure for themselves.

We are often told that gender neutral/mixed sex is the norm in France - and yet this imag suggests that most women, in France, would actually prefer to queue to use the ladies, than use such a facility.

You might get an inkling as to why non "gender critical" women are not particularly bothered by this particular situation.

Still delighted you're not bothered. And other women aren't bothered. But I notice you're still not mentioning the women who are bothered and can't use facilities in this particular situation. They don't pop out of reality. What would you like them to do?

The point isn’t whether the woman who questioned the trans woman was right or wrong in her political outlook. The point is that when she did query what she thought might be contravention of venue policy the trans woman reacted by getting aggressive. It’s not ok to react with aggression when someone asks a question that upsets you or doesn’t correspond with your political view. If this was a Muslim querying whether her meal was halal and someone reacted this way the police would have been called and they might have been charged with a hate crime. Yet when a female seeks to protect her own interests she’s thrown out.

Given the other women took the side of the trans woman it might just tend to suggest they were not afraid just because a trans woman was in the loo. They could have said nothing- they could have left

Most of the time it is not about fear, but about the dignity of one's sex in intimate spaces. The reason we have single sex facilities in the first instance.

Also being in a crowded facility with lots of other women, is not the same as being a lone female in a facility with several males.

Would I send my granddaughter alone into a women's toilet facility that males were also permitted to enter. Of course I wouldn't.

by what kind of ostrich-brained convenience-based reasoning substitute for logic are you assuming that all the other women who didn't speak out were not afraid? fucks sake

Well this the response I half expected.

You (meaning gender critical you in general) are of course free to insult any one who wasn't or would not be bothered by an obvious trans woman being in the queue of a busy ladies loo with lots of other women.

Or , if you want people to be on your side you and listen to you (again general you) might occasionally as Autumn Rose did, listen to other views. You might get an inkling as to why non "gender critical" women are not particularly bothered by this particular situation.

Given the other women took the side of the trans woman it might just tend to suggest they were not afraid just because a trans woman was in the loo. They could have said nothing- they could have left.

So far as people who might scare me in a busy, night club loo- aggressive drunk people- whatever their presentation.

Wow! I’m sure she has soooooo much skillz to pass on 🤪 Where do I enrol? 😂

Tubby the leading UK guru on this is the MP Layla Moran I believe, following her stating her skillz in this area in parliament.

Aha! Is there a training course available because I don’t seem to possess this skill 😂

Tubbytwo: Easy! You look into their souls and determine if it's a real laydee soul or not.

Just come back home and eagerly checked to see if anyone had posted instructions for me on how to differentiate between AGP transwomen and the other sort (whatever they are?) but nothing yet 🙁 I’ll keep checking. It would be immensely useful information to possess since it would bring about an end all sexual assaults/rapes. Please don’t keep this information to yourselves, those of you who have it.

You might I suppose put the case that the other women were too terrified by the presence of the trans woman to speak out- personally I don't think that was the case.

Well how lovely for you that you think this, but this is what we know:

• at least two women had an issue with it
• one of those two women was afraid to speak out
• the woman who did speak out experienced legitimately frightening consequences

so by what kind of ostrich-brained convenience-based reasoning substitute for logic are you assuming that all the other women who didn't speak out were not afraid? fucks sake.

Tubbytwo, I'd love to see this question answered too.

How exactly does one weigh up whether the transwoman standing next to one in a queue for the ladies loo is an ‘androphiliac transperson’ or has AGP? If you could explain I’m sure most women would be very pleased. Thanks 😊

I would weigh up if the person in question was an androphilic trans person or an AGP gynephilic trans person, and I would, obviously, be more wary of the latter...

Absolutely! No-one wants to be forced into being a participant in someone's fetish.

Well it obviously wasn't a problem for the other women

Just because many people won't vocalise, or speak out in public ( on any number of different sorts of occasion), doesn't mean they are o.k with something; or comfortable with it. It often takes a brave soul to speak out........and it is often the brave souls who instigate change......because most people accept what they' re given.

I expect I'll get slated for saying this but I think my reaction would probably have been to mentally judge the trans woman's appearance (I judge every one's appearance, I'm very shallow) but if she wasn't doing anything else I doubt very much I'd care

You see, I would.....

In the first instance I would not have made a huge scene out of it, but I would have said, fairly discreetly, " This is the ladies......."

In this context, the objectivity of your (not you specifically) beliefs is nearly meaningless if they are fundamentally at odds with the beliefs of the person you're trying to garner support from

Biological sex is not a belief, though, it is a reality. A material reality.

I'm a transwomen,I just need a pee and can't use the men's but if this is a problem I'll go,

But this can't be the solution for every situation. It shouldn't be up to whoever is in the loo at the time to negotiate amongst themselves, who is fine with mixed sex provision, who has circumstances that makes mixed sex provision impossible for them to access, and who gives way to whom. The disclosure on all sides not to mention the negotiations and possible solutions of where the displaced person goes - TW or the distressed female - aren't answered either.

There have to be some spaces for females who cannot use mixed sex provisions.

Quite honestly I pick my battles. I would not straight away be demanding the transwoman states whetehr they are a man or a woman because that's a sure way for all hell to be let loose.
I believe some transpeople are the genuine article and if they just want to quietly go to the loo and you don't feel threatened then fine.
However any bizarre or obviously fetish like behaviour I'd be protesting.
In my experience and I have a lot of it in my job - better not say what - trans women do not lose their male aggression when challenged and will often try to intimidate you, lash out or show angry and aggressive behaviour.
Sometimes it just isn't safe to approach them without back up.

I think there's rules against troll hunting.