Trans women in womens toilet

I would not use the loo in this case because I would feel uncomfortable sharing a personal space with a biological male.

However, I would not challenge the transwoman because:

1. I would be called all kinds of names and maybe persecuted
2. I would be intimidated by the physical strength and possibly size of the transwoman. I do not wish to get beaten up.

I know that I may never feel comfortable using a public loo again. I've lost my rights to the pools, the loos and many more facilities and services yet to come.

Silence does not mean you approve of anything. Silence can mean you are too horrified to speak out.

Oh bless. Someone’s been trawling through old threads so they can shout at the nasty women. Have a snickers pet. pats on head

The human species only comes in two sexes. We are sexually dimorphic. Our sex is immutable. This means the male and female sex class are distinctive and mutually exclusive. No matter what we would like to happen, the sex we were born into remains our sex until we die.

There is no spectrum between ova and spermatozoa. No third gamete. Just sperm, only ever produced by males and ova, only ever produced by females. Individual deviations from characteristics of a sex class due to differences in sex development do not invalidate the class as a whole nor do they move a member of one sex class into the other.

This is not rocket science. It's basic human morphology. Biology 101.

As for your non sequitur about a woman thrown out of a night club for being mistaken as trans. I'm somewhat bemused by what you're trying to say here. Masculine women are female, the same way feminine women are. And whether we conform to the stereotypes associated with our sex or not, we remain that sex. Even throwing her out of a night club for being mistaken as trans cannot change the sex of a female.

What many masculine women do say is that yes, they are at times challenged in female-only facilities, but that they know how to put other women at ease because they were brought up and socialised as females.

Finally, and just for your information, that throwing out is not done by gender critical people or feminists. It is usually done by men. Maybe have a word with them.

Oh and it was back when i was just bewildered

Now i snigger...at posts like crazypigeons

Oooh look

I was the last person on here before A the world turned to shit and B the zombie thread got bumped

Yay

Coming hard on the heels of a day when a TRA I know in real life informed us (in all seriousness) that they had periods because of the cyclical effects of their hormone therapy, I think magical transformative dust and abracadabra are not far from where their thinking is at.

Don't be silly. Of course males of a certain class can completely transform their body into that of a female. Down to every single cell in their body. Only certain men have this magic transformative dust. They say abracadabra and a woman springs forth in place of the man who was there before.

It happens when they grow their hair. In a completely different way from other men who grow their hair. Or put kohl under their eyes. In a completely different way than the other men who do it. Or if they put a skirt on. But again in a completely different way from when other men wear traditional skirt like dress.

Transwomen have issued an edict saying so. Therefore who are you a mere woman without this magic provenance to say it is untrue. You will be reported to the inquisition if you say that it is your opinion that magic doesn't exist and it is untrue.

Hey Crazy, why are you bringing back this long dead thread? I see you are a new poster. "Cis" is not appreciated here, please respect that.

Need I remind you of the masculine cis woman who was thrown out of a night club because she was mistaken as trans. Now cry 'erasure' again

Two wrongs don't make a right. I doubt that have happened in the past, when males weren't allowed to self Id into women's spaces?

Transwomen are NOT women. Get. Over. It.

Trans Women are women. Get. Over. It.

Need I remind you of the masculine cis woman who was thrown out of a night club because she was mistaken as trans. Now cry 'erasure' again

Men have to widen the bandwidth of maleness

Yes...

But god forbid they should actually have to

Ok, let's go back to the transwoman queuing for the toilet.

I have a trans sibling. When we visit parents we use the same loo (at different times!) with no issues.

If my trans sibling queued up behind me in a public toilet not on. I have no fear of this person, but FGS, they transitioned at 55. Spent most of their life MALE. Give women some dignity and privacy, please. And those that are inclined can flame me all they wish I have to live this shit, I KNOW this person, so don't be telling me what I should feel and who I should shove over for.

I have said before that this is not a problem that women have to solve. Men have to widen the bandwidth of maleness.

Like JKR said: be who you want to be, dress how you want to dress... but also embrace the fact that you are born male, or female, and respect that

Is "it" on the list? Where do I find this list? I feel some eye-rolling coming on

I’m not sure if ‘it’ is on the list but you would definitely get deleted for it as it goes against ‘respectful discussion’ or something. The rules are at the top of the FWR home pages.

I only use female/male/person/child who identifies as trans.

That's partially because not everyone who identifies as trans actually identifies as a woman - there's trans femme, trans feminine, femme, non-binary femme, non-binary trans feminine, male, man, female and of course TW. And partially because this avoids confusing people as to which sex the person is that is being discussed. And also because while I do not believe anyone can transition to be the other sex, I do believe that people can identify as trans - this is about identity after all, and that is highly subjective.

I have traded brevity and convenience for clarity and accuracy that allows me to be true to what I believe. It felt a bit clunky at first, but now I've gotten used to it, it works for me.

"You either have to lie and call the male bodied person who identifies as trans, a trans’woman’, she, her or call the male bodied person they/them. You must never ever speak the truth."

If only you were joking.
Okaaaay, so me referring to a man as any kind of woman is not going to happen. Not ever.

Nor will I be calling a man "she" or "her", or using "they" when I refer to a single individual whose sex is known to me. The best response I can give to any objectors is to tell them not to be so bloody ridiculous.

We can say "cunt" on here but not "he" when we're referring to a man. Crazy.

Is "it" on the list? Where do I find this list? I feel some eye-rolling coming on. 🙄

I will change my mind on the existence on an innate sense of gender identity about the same time I change my mind on the exisitence of a soul.

These claims are matters of belief, not evidence.

There is no evidence that humans possess an innate sense of a gender identity that is distinct from knowledge of and comfort/discomfort with their sex.

There is no evidence that transwomen have the 'brains' or 'essence' of a woman, nor that transmen have the 'brains' or 'essence' of a man.

There is some suggestion that there could be issues around mapping the body ie a neurological issue - which again, has nothing to do with an innate gender identity.

You don't get to tell other people they must believe articles of your particular faith. You must be left alone to practice your faith, but you can't impose it on others, including by social coercion.

God, why are people so DUMB!

Although I like it I don't think OK Computer is the best album ever made. I'm Radioheadphobic!

Reality phobic. Also feminism phobic.

"You refuse to accept that this wafer is the body of Christ.
You are Catholicphobic."

Such nonsense.

...you refuse to accept gender identity. That qualifies as transphobic.

And your refusal to accept there is no gender identity (because it's regressive sexist stereotypes) is what phobic?

You either have to lie and call the male bodied person who identifies as trans, a trans’woman’, she, her or call the male bodied person they/them. You must never ever speak the truth.

Well thank you, that at least explains it even if it doesn't justify their action!

So what do I say instead? "The person who was born with a penis"? "Someone with a male body"? Or would plain old "The man" be acceptable when I'm referring to an adult person who was born with a penis, who has a male body and who is thus known as a man?!

Martini you can’t say ‘trans identifying man’ when describing male bodied people who identify as trans, as that’s one of the banned terms. Your post will probably be deleted because you’ve repeated the first post. Mumsnet banned the use of ‘cis’ as an ‘equaliser’. It’s a great big ole pile of confusion and no wonder the mods themselves get confused. 😁

It was the phrase ‘ identifying ’ that got your post deleted, I expect. I got a deletion for a similar phrase in a thread about women’s sports a few weeks ago.
I was quite cross because while the acronym it spells out is on the ‘offensive, banned’ list, the phrase isn’t. Well, apparently, since the rules were made, there have been some unpublicised changes!

How we are supposed to talk about the sports issues without referring to ‘male’ is beyond me.