Trans women in womens toilet

If the transwomen was chatting to friends(woke allies)then asking that question would be risky .
The transwomen should be aware that she may be questioned and a simple, I'm a transwomen,I just need a pee and can't use the men's but if this is a problem I'll go,response there would have been no issue.Its the aggressive behaviour that is the problem and that the questioner was forcibly removed compounds that and forces most women into the ossition of wanting no men in our spaces whereas until this self I'd most transexuals were quietly accepted and allowed to go about there business.

I wonder how many of the women who kept quiet were actually afraid of the potential for (male) violence from the transwoman. I've been in a similar queue (M&S lingerie changing room queue). I kept my mouth shut and stared at the floor. Didn't want to tempt fate and get walloped.

that would have involved the tw genuinely acting like a woman: asking for accommodation, not demanding it; and empathising, not dominating

Yup.

And actually in law, unless the transwoman had a GRC or was officially going through official transition ie NOT self-ID - then they were in the wrong lavatory

Kit I do wonder how many people understand that it's all about self ID now and not the process you described.

In the past I would have seen it like that & been ‘meh so they want to wee in the ladies so what?’

I doubt any of the women in that queue would say ‘oh yes being ok with them peeing in the ladies means I also think they should be allowed in women refuges, rape centres, to be included on all women shortlists, given awards meant for women, and that there should be no female only spaces at all’

2 years ago I was totally on board with twaw because I thought it meant men who have severe dysphoria & gone through long painful mental assessments and physical treatments should be given the courtesy of being treated as an actual woman because it’s no skin off my nose and of course we both know they’re not actual women

I didn’t realise that that meant I was supposed to agree that there should be no female only spaces anywhere and that confused teenage boys would be able to grow their hair long, wear make up & announce they were a woman and I was expected to accept they Suddenly had exactly the same life experience as me of being a woman

I was kind because I’m a woman, I was socialised today be kind but our kindness was not reciprocated. It was interpreted as weakness and an opportunity to colonise every single one of our spaces

So I’m done with being accommodating

Well it obviously wasn't a problem for the other women.

Good. That's really nice for those other women. But what should the females for whom it is a problem do?

Luisa of course it's your perspective, no worries.

I would say to the OP that it underlines the importance of contacting your local MP because it's easy to get in a situation where a majority is silent and then gets ignored.

I think she was hoping the trans woman would accept their presence was a problem and find an alternative place to pee

Well it obviously wasn't a problem for the other women. You (general you) can slate them for "prioritising men" "being handmaidens" etc. etc. or as is, more likely they simply didn't see there was a problem.

You might I suppose put the case that the other women were too terrified by the presence of the trans woman to speak out- personally I don't think that was the case.

You (general you) are free to dismiss everything I've posted but it's my perspective on the situation described.

Luisa "My question was meant from the point of view of what did the questioner think the trans woman was going to do."

I think she was hoping the trans woman would accept their presence was a problem and find an alternative place to pee.

LuisaRey excellent points, that's another way of looking at it.

we lose the right to question the presence of a male in a female-only space

Which means if you're not one of the females lucky enough to be fine over having no privacy from males, your only option is to walk away and surrender your access to any space at all .

No one will ever tell me: what is supposed to happen for these women? Because surely in a modern, civilised society, it isn't ok to just deprive a percentage of tax payers of access to public provision?

My question was meant from the point of view of what did the questioner think the trans woman was going to do.

There are posts about why are women prioritising men is that what the other women were doing or is it that they simply don't care/ don't see an issue?

I expect I'll get slated for saying this but I think my reaction would probably have been to mentally judge the trans woman's appearance (I judge every one's appearance, I'm very shallow) but if she wasn't doing anything else I doubt very much I'd care.

Luisa “ What did the questioner think was going to happen in a queue with lots of other women around?”

If she’s lucky enough to live in area that hasn't been affected much by all this, then she might well have expected other women to say “excuse me, please go use the men’s”.

Sorry, I mean that they believe transwomen should be treated the same as genetic women

I wonder if in the particular circumstances here the other women in the queue simply didn't see an issue as to why the question was asked?

The OP mentioned waiting in a queue and that the trans woman was chatting to the women in the queue. I'm assuming the venue was a club or a pub, as it had bouncers, and that it was busy enough that a queue had formed in the loos. What did the questioner think was going to happen in a queue with lots of other women around?

The trans woman was clearly in the wrong by responding aggressively as were the other women in the queue but I can understand why the other women might have thought what sort of a question/ thing to say is that? Who cares in the particular situation here of a busy toilet in a club, lots of people around, get in and pee and out again.

Tricky one, the woman had every right to ask the gender of the fellow toilet user!

You mean sex. I.e. biology. Not dresses and make up. It’s a basic concept.

I’d report to the licensing service that covers door staff, the venue and my local council.
That’s a vile way to treat a person who asked a valid question.

The thought that my dd could end up going out somewhere and sharing the loo with a 6 foot three biological male who identifies as “sharon” fills me with dread.

Why are some women so keen to support males and not other women?

I wonder the same. Especially those who are members of the TWAW brigade and happy to see TW shit over the rights of actual women but still claim to be feminists.

Removing a woman for asking a reasonable question. Is this not assault by the security team? They have very limited powers to actually touch people in the venue, do they not?

In any case, to terrify someone to the point they look themselves in the toilet out of fear, meets the definition of common assault, so I do hope the woman reports this male to the police.

Thank you for reporting this incident to us, BeCoolYolanda.

This is one of the logical consequences of self-id, that we lose the right to question the presence of a male in a female-only space. It's completely irrelevant whether this was a man who believes himself to be trans or a man pretending to be trans to get access to a female-only space.

Like the woman who asked the question, I don't consent to sharing female-only spaces with any men, regardless of their external representation or internal identity. It's a reasonable objection, I am legally entitled to make. I hope you lodge a complaint with the venue, I would.

Would you feel able to go to the venue and support the “questioner”. Was she forcibly dragged from the loos, does she have bruises etc, I would be fully on her side and support an ABH charge against the bouncers

Tricky one, the woman had every right to ask the gender of the fellow toilet user! We are sooo afraid of being classed as transphobic, homophobic, racist, sectarian that we can't ask a question without being labelled! However, the trans woman had every right not to answer the question. Maybe suggest the venue has a unisex toilet? Means anyone can use it

Had the transwomen said ‘I am trans, so biologically male. I identify with women... ” things would probably have ended very differently* but that would have involved the tw genuinely acting like a woman: asking for accommodation, not demanding it; and empathising, not dominating. The reaction of the other women was also the reaction to a man-self abnegation, instinctive accommodation.
The TW and the handmaidens’ reactions exemplifies everything about how transactivism has destroyed the long-standing detente whereby women accommodated ‘trutrans’.
(not that I think it should* have all been smoothed over and made nice-i would, a couple of years ago, have been fine with a transsexual using the toilets; now it’s simply not ok because TRAs have turned ‘kindness’ into the thin end of the wedge of a colonisation of every part of being a woman)