Q - what is it exactly,

@NonnyMouse1337 ah, ok, I understand! :~)
I haven't really read much queer literature myself so can't really comment on that aspect of it!
@OneEpisode it's not about it no looking 'cool', it's that people have expressed to me and others that they don't like the term being used. Being white, I don't have the lived experience of what the terms and community mean so I'd rather try and make the effort to not use it. Not all people object to it but I think it's not my place to say what words are appropriated from PoC.

Douglas Murray says this about Butler et al

Of course when it's nearly impossible to tell what is being said, almost anything can be said and exceptionally dishonest arguments can be smuggled in under the guise of complexity. This is one of the reasons why Butler and others write so badly

A lot of queer lingo and literature that I've come across seems very poorly written or worded. Using superfluous words to convey some sort of superior or profound meaning when there doesn't really seem to be any

Nonny, I reckon you would like Douglas Murray's book too because he's absolutely scathing about this. The linguistic thing is interesting because as you say, its aim is obfuscation Why? Language's primary function is communication, so clarity is central. What's with the tortured, twisted prose and invented words? What precisely does non binary mean?

AAVE is “African- American Vernacular English” so NB in a US context could mean non- black. NB would not be as cool if it could be confused with that, so enby is preferred, even on a UK site...

I've ordered that book btw, any more suggestions welcome.

ACatWhoBinds my comment was a fairly general one around the topic. Not specifically aimed at the musician's quote. :)

A lot of queer lingo and literature that I've come across seems very poorly written or worded. Using superfluous words to convey some sort of superior or profound meaning when there doesn't really seem to be any.

If the so called queer community did their own thing, and minded their own business, it wouldn't be so bad. But although most are nice people, at least on the surface, there's still this arrogance and superiority and they like to metaphorically wag their finger at everyone whether in person or online, correcting and lecturing everyone who isn't as 'evolved' as them, when it's quite obvious that they lack sufficient self awareness to see how some of their attitudes and ideas can also be very racist etc. Colonising and appropriating terms and definitions like bisexuality for their benefit and then having the temerity to turn around and tell the rest off because we are able to form opinions that are different from them.

What is AAVE?

Pan and demi are the ones I don’t understand.
How is pan different from bi? Bi is finding both sexes attractive, so who the heck else is pan for? (I’m assuming we are excluding paedophilia and beastiality, but what do I know.)
Demi means half, so is that someone with a reduced interest in sex? (Waves to other menopausal women in solidarity with our new label)

One of my teens is heavily into all this and I just want to cry out “a sexuality or identity isn’t a substitute for a personality!”
So endlessly focused on labels and subdivisions.

Looks like Dave Chappelle was right. The alphabet people are coming for you.

@NonnyMouse1337 not sure whether your comment was aimed at the original quote but if it was it is just an interview with a musician, not a piece of academic literature. It's very hard to talk about personal things like that, especially when under pressure in an interview scenario. I think, if you were referring to that, you're reading too much into it!

@TwitcherOfCurtains I personally use enby or non binary rather than NB because I know that acronym is already used in AAVE and I don't want people to get mixed up! As for whether a heterosexual couple could identify as queer, I would not call them queer. If either or both were bi/pan though and they were comfortable with the label then I would say the individuals were queer but not the relationship.
I don't think it is about letting straight people into the LGBTQ+ community, though some people might say they are to be a part of it which I don't really agree with but I think for most it's just about having a broadly defined word which isn't as gate-kept as others.
Also, and I can only go by my own experience here, I don't think it's about being individual. I personally love community and togetherness and it could even be the opposite to that point - people using a broad word for a broad community which brings people together and shares and celebrates their shared experiences, interests and feelings. That's my own experience anyway

Q is a way of letting straight people and fetishists into the LGBT.

If my understanding of Queer is correct it appears DH and I could legitimately use the label....which is a bit odd considering we're a hetrosexual, church going conservative couple

Yes of course you can, it means anything you want it to. Or one of you could identity as the opposite sex and complain loudly that everyone assumes you are a straight couple and doesn’t see your specialness as the coolest type of lesbian / gay couple.

When woke people annoy me , I tell them that Im trans because I’m gender free or agender. It’s fun watching them themselves in knots trying to tell me why I’m not. Their explanation basically comes down to

“ You can’t be because you are middle aged and boring “.

It's all rather crazy to me.

I think you would like The Madness of Crowds. Douglas Murray is withering about this...

Narcissism of small differences:
'In terms ofpostmodernity, Clive Hazell argues thatconsumer culturehas been seen as predicated on the narcissism of small differences to achieve a superficial sense of one's own uniqueness, an ersatz sense of otherness which is only a mask for an underlying uniformity andsameness.[6]The phenomenon has been portrayed by the British comedy groupMonty Pythonin their satirical 1979 filmLife of Brian[7]and by authorJoan Didionin an essay (part of her 1968 bookSlouching Towards Bethlehem) aboutMichael Laski, the founder of theCommunist Party USA (Marxist–Leninist).[8]'

If my understanding of Queer is correct it appears DH and I could legitimately use the label..
..which is a bit odd considering we're a hetrosexual, church going conservative couple.

I've fallen down a google rabbit hole and discovered there are identities called "Novigender" and "maverique" both of which seem to be defined by not having a definition.

It's all rather crazy to me.

Phil in fairness, "identifying" as demisexual or asexual is a often a very safe way to turn down over-friendly people down on nights out (especially gay clubs). I know a few people who've done that. You're right in that it's not really a political sexuality though.

Ironically, I match the writing for demisexual very well. I identify as fussy.

I have a friend who is a straight, married, stay at home mother who proudly insists she is a member of the queer community. She told a very butch lesbian at a local potluck "I love how inclusive our community is," (meaning the 'queer community.') My eyes, they rolled.

Queer is for straight people who want to be special

What's with the deliberate, tortured lack of clarity?

Some people are easily swayed by stuff that is deliberately obtuse. They think it must be incredibly profound and mystical if it's vague and difficult to comprehend. If they can't understand it and the other person is using big words and convoluted sentences, then it means this person must be very intelligent and saying something profound and worth listening to.

That seems to be the sort of fan base around Judith Butler etc.

I have to try hard to not roll my eyes around such types. Unfortunately, as a bisexual woman it's hard to find good ol' fashioned LGB(T) spaces. It's quite overrun with the queer types these days so quite difficult to avoid in certain social circles and places. The ones that love to lecture 'white' people on privilege and cultural appropriation while themselves being white and sipping on their 'chai' lattes, going to their yoga classes etc.

Thought Q was the alternative real news which we don't get to hear about on mainstream media

Can a heterosexual (not including a trans partner) couple class themselves as Queer?

Yes, and if you question their identity you are queerphobic bigot!

@twitcherofcurtains Good question... I think they could but one or both would need to be something else like gender non-conforming or maybe just plain vanilla polyamorous??

It's definitely one of those Alice in Wonderland terms though. I think there's even a movement to drop all the letters from LGBTQIA down to Q but it's not getting much traction because so many English speaking countries still see the word "queer" as an unforgiveable slur.