Julie Bindel bullying Posie

Er, most of us weren't on that thread, you dredged it up to blanket smear people and now you're pretending you don't understand why the irrelevant topicyou initiatedis dominating the board?Soaking up all the oxygen talking tirelessly about yourself.....

That was a very peculiar thread predicated on the premise that not only was it fine for the OP's daughter to be a lesbian (which no-one would disagree with) but that it was desirable and to be encouraged in preference to lesser and less desirable heterosexual relationships- which is a very different kettle of fish.

Lol a bit rich Horse considering the amount of times I was badgered to share that thread! And the amount of times you claimed I was lying about it.

I have written some mighty long posts!

Actually I think it is good when people with different views engage. A chance to clarify my own thinking.

..somebody here thinks this thread is about them (or is trying to make it about them).

There's a word for that.

Sap

Er, most of us weren't on that thread, you dredged it up to blanket smear people and now you're pretending you don't understand why the irrelevant topic you initiated is dominating the board?Soaking up all the oxygen talking tirelessly about yourself.....

You don't hear much about trans people adopting through do you, I don't think it's very common at all.

That is not an argument. We all know that there has been a surge in young people seeking to transition. Posie, and many others, have expressed strong concerns. It does.not take much imagination to predict that in a decades time there will be a surge of trans and detrans people seeking to adopt, their fertility shot as a result of the various medical treatments they have received.

Many may make good parents. There is no reason why not. Many probably won’t have the opportunity. It’s about caring. I want adoption authorities to be able to make the right decision for a child, without tiptoeing around gender orthodoxy. I want young people to retain their open futures.

Posie has certainly talked about protecting ROGD kids. Right wing/left wing...it is so important that we stop this Stonewall shit.

Oh you mean the thread where I was called selfish for having kids in a lesbian relationship? (The selfish comments apparently don't count as one of the posters who made them is annoying) - yeah true there's mention of adoption on that thread. My DC aren't adopted though.

Not sure why we're discussing adoption anyway, did Posie say something about it?
Sapp

Er, hello? You were the one who brought adoption up. By linking to a defunct thread most of us were not on in a smear attempt. That was yesterday. Did you already vaporize it down the memory hole?

I found this video and it's pretty heartwarming. Can't see how anyone could have a problem with Alex being a parent:

Coyo I thought dysphoria was classed as a 'condition' rather than a 'problem'.

SapphosRock, what kind of problem is "gender dysphoria" then?

Or are you saying it isn't a problem? which would be news for the people who suffer from it.

Do you agree that sexuality is different from gender? And then that sex and gender are different?

Of course

Would you then agree that adoption authorities, if there is a need, should be able to base an adoption decision on sex rather than gender?

Entirely depends on the circumstances and would be case by case. If a FTM trans man had a GRC and had fully transitioned to a man it would seem strange to base the adoption decision on the parent being female.

Not sure why we're discussing adoption anyway, did Posie say something about it? I am sure that if the needs of the child were being centered and the choice was a loving parent who happened to be transgender or a children's home then the child would be best places with a transgender parent.

You don't hear much about trans people adopting through do you, I don't think it's very common at all.

I notice neither of your excellent questions were answered by JP.

Of course they weren't. Purblindness is a hell of a drug.

Sapphos, I notice that you conflate LGB with T.

Do you agree that sexuality is different from gender? And then that sex and gender are different?

Would you then agree that adoption authorities, if there is a need, should be able to base an adoption decision on sex rather than gender?

I keep drilling down, but it is important that it is understood that devil is in the detail. For most purposes people should be able to live as the gender they choose - though I would prefer it to be through broadening male and female stereotypes rather than people having to feel they need to take hormones and undertake surgery. However there are times when rights clash. Society needs to discuss in order to determine a reasonable solution that, above all protects
the most vulnerable. (And here I would include transpeople with MH problems.) I am pretty sure that if the debate were more open, most people would agree that in some circumstances single sex protections are important.

Stonewall is a lobbying organisation. It represents just one section of society. It is an important voice in any society-wide discussion, but should not be the only voice. Nor should it be able to demand #nodebate.

So well done Posie for bringing the debate out into the open. You may not be perfect, and some people clearly hate you for what you have achieved. I would take the hostility as a sign of you having achieved something.

Do you think that gender dysphoria itself is a mental health problem?

Nope. Do you? The NHS certainly doesn't.

... A high proportion of trans women have had mental health problems...

Do you think that gender dysphoria itself is a mental health problem?

LangCleg there isn't an automatic disconnect between centering the needs of the child and the parents wants. That is surely what makes a successful adoption?!

In the case of LGBT parenting centering the needs of the child involve the adult's ability to provide love, care, attention, stability etc etc.

Being gay or trans is irrelevant unless it is in some way directly linked to the parent's ability to centre the needs of the child.

It's always interesting to me that adoption itself is coming under more scrutiny among child welfare advocates. Not that they generally think it should be disallowed, but more and more their are questions about it's real effect on children. And not in terms of some statistical measure of "success". Certainly international adoption is coming under significant scrutiny both in terms of the potential for corruption and dishonesty, and in terms of the direct effect on the child of being effectively severed from their roots, any extended family, etc.

Somehow that kind of child-centered discussion hasn't quite made it to looking at other types of reproductive technologies, or other ways children could be severed from their roots.

Lang and needmore

I notice neither of your excellent questions were answered by JP. Lang, I should think you are beyond exasperated. If the Labour party continues this trajectory, they will continue to lose elections

That "gender assignment" doesn't require physical transition doesn't mean that the protected category isn't gender reassignment. I can't follow what the logic is there.

From what I know about adoptions the needs of the child are always centered, and rightly so

Then why, every single time somebody brings up the best interests of the child, do you return it to the wants of the parents?

I honestly don't think you even know you're doing it.

From what I know about adoptions the needs of the child are always centered, and rightly so.

Adoption by people with MH issues is always bound to be problematic whether trans or not.

My point is more child centred. If it is agreed that a child is better placed in a female household, would adoption agencies have to accept TWAW even if they believe the child is likely to perceive the TW as male.

I am not suggesting that the TW would not be suitable to adopt other children, or make a good adoptive parent. Just that a traumatised child should have their needs prioritised. And authorities be allowed to recognise that in some circumstances sex trumps gender.

Yes of course the match much be right and the age and needs of the child taken into consideration. A high proportion of trans women have had mental health problems which wouldn't automatically rule them out but would make the process a lot harder for them.

Yes. But the focus needs to be the suitability of a particular adoptive parent for a particular child. If a child needs to be placed with a woman, the is a discussion to be had about how this child might perceive a TW and the impact this might have.

The point being that things are not black and white. Certainly with adoption, the needs of a child should trump all including LGBT rights or PC orthodoxies. It may be that a TM adopter might be preferable to a male.

More recently I have wondered what would happen if a similarly aged single person, a recent M-F transitioner tried to go down the same route, perhaps insisting that they had the same "rights" as other lesbians.

You do realise that transgender people have exactly the same rights to adopt as anyone else? There isn't some LGBT hierarchy where lesbians are seen as preferable to trans women.