Julie Bindel bullying Posie

Always good to see you on here Julie and fair play. Like I said, I still love you.

Maybe I should leave it there and, if this were a one-off occurrence, I would do. But from one blunt person to another, I really don't get this obsession with Posie. I imagine you and she move in different circles. You do your thing for women. She does hers. She doesn't even call herself a feminist so I don't understand this constant need to comment.

I know you're not the only one who does it and I realise there may be stuff going on that I don't know about but, from where I'm sitting, it's really corrosive.

Respect to you for saying that Julie

I think it should have been said privately the last thing we want is a public fight to crow over

Best to let it die, tracey. It's between Julie and Posie now.

Yeah, Bernard. Funny, that. Puts me in mind of those fuckers that put gifs of dancing skeletons on their social media to celebrate the death of a young woman.

@Bindelj will you be admitting you were a dickhead making the same overtures to Posie ?

(Speaking as someone who is no stranger to being a bit too blunt sometimes)

Hi Julie, good to see you post. For the record, I think we need both you and Posie. And everyone else, all fighting in our own way. But directed outwards, not at each other.
Looking forward to hearing you in Manchester next month, and I hope you’ll come out for a drink with us afterwards

Interesting to see the intermittent posters that have been drawn to this thread

Fair enough Julie

What did the tweet say? It's been deleted now?

It is worth remembering we praise these women because they are not cautious, because they don’t keep their heads down, because when they see something they think is wrong they speak up. We can’t expect to get a smooth ride from them and thank goodness for that!

Hi Julie 👋

Nice to see you on here and I'm sure we can all relate to making inadvisable Tweets at some point. I imagine it's hard to keep your cool when it comes to PP.

Coyo I am very much fighting for the men who use prostitutes to receive tougher punishments.

Hello Julie. Fair play.

SapphosRock I'm glad to see you are on team Julie. I hope to see you fighting against prostitution now.

IMHO, both Julie and Posie are brilliant and have made very positive contributions to the cause of women.

I still think Posie should have been given the Turner Prize for her billboard campaign.

@SapphosRock I didn't say anything about Julie's twitter pronouncement. I don't think she should have done it but I am not going to "pick a side" like a teenage mean girl

What I do take issue with is wilful misunderstanding

BUT I was wrong to say...

My typos are legendary

Hi everyone, someone told me there was some criticism on here about my post last night re PP. Fair enough. I can hardly talk about Parker having not looked up Mona Eltahawy's second name or book title or work, et cetera, when I then go and spell it wrong. I was a total dickhead. I should never have called Parker 'thick', that was totally wrong of me. I stand by my views of her and her tactics, best I was wrong to say what I said. As you were.

Like everyone else, I think some people are unbearable wankers at times, and sometimes have absolutely no hesitation throwing others under the bus.

There are women doing tremendous good in this movement who also, occasionally and deliberately, do actual harm to it in service to their own egos, and to women within it too.

I try to judge people by their own words, not by what others say about them, and not by who they were seen talking to, and not by what 'everybody knows' about them. I've no truck with anyone who talks about so and so 'aligning with' or 'shared a platform with' or 'allied with'. I tend to view people who talk this way as self centered witch-hunters, do it to Julia types. I believe that they actually know there exists no actual quid pro quo alliance, only a general mutual agreement that the sky is blue amongst people who otherwise disagree on most other issues. They also conveniently ignore their own actual alliances with others who are actively tearing apart women's rights, which genuine alliances somehow are not considered odious.

Bah. Both the left and the right have chosen their own pet ways to diminish women's rights.

There are 3.8 billion of us. I want all of us recognised by our sex. Even the ones who I don't much like. I try, mostly, to reserve my moaning about specific, named individuals' actions to private conversations with trusted mates, where my indulgent emotional incontinence does the least harm.

I think that's problematic.

Yes, it is, but I would say that it's not unusual for American commentators to talk about left vs right in ways that don't make sense to me, and also which don't seem to get to the heart of what differentiates them.

AnyFucker

So the following is excusable:

'Women who think they're men should be sterilised'

But calling the person who Tweeted it a 'thick feck' is bullying?

I don't think either Posie or Julie come across great tbh but one is definitely more vile than the other.

So he has the "right" as very state oriented and authoritarian, while he sees the "left" as very individualistic and almost libertarian

I think that's problematic. I don't think it's an accurate assessment of the political landscape in the US. There is a libertarian wing of the Republican party which rarely gets mentioned. Also, the threat to freedom of speech in universities is emanating from the left wing in many US universities. The antifa no platforming theme isn't really discussed.

That trip was the biggest own-goal ever. No decent person would have looked at the video of them abusing Sarah McBride

Robust questioning re: support of girls having elective double mastectomies isn’t ‘abuse’.

You say tomato, I say society seems to give absolutely no fucks for the long term wellbeing of young women caught up in this gender-bollox, including my own socially awkward, puberty-distressed, stepdaughter.

I can never follow these kinds of arguments and it is a large part of why I stopped interacting in certain online (and offline) circles and stick to mumsnet. I like to know what's going on, and to be able to discuss and debate it. Mumsnet is perfect for that. I don't think I am socially blessed enough to really understand the fights.

LangCleg

Yes, I would put her in the middle as well. And I agree that we are in a period of realignment. And all of them seem to be about recognising freedom as a good in itself being a limited idea, and that atomic individualism is probably simply not true in the way liberalism has said, or behaved as if it believes. Relationalism hasn't been adequately understood within liberal approaches.

I'm not sure I'd associate materialism particularly with the left or right, I suspect you have versions all along the spectrum, as well as idealists of various sorts.

Having thought about it though, I think maybe what seemed odd to me is because the author is thinking in American terms. So he has the "right" as very state oriented and authoritarian, while he sees the "left" as very individualistic and almost libertarian. Whereas I tend to associate that view almost with a sort of centrism in terms of left and right, while I see the far left as based on class analysis, and the traditional rights also as interested in relational groupings.

I do think it funny how people condemn women as working with the conservatives or republicans. It is almost as if they hadn't realised that they are the ones in power at the moment.