Female prisoners in Scotland

If the policy is that one biological female cannot be placed in the male estate for obvious safety reasons, one has to wonder how much the ratio of biologically m/f has to tip before the same concerns are inevitable for the f people and this has to be acknowledged. You can't recognise biology and reality in some selected situations while denying you can see it in others. It's ridiculous.

I'd like a number from one of these politicians helping this happen on their watch please, of how many women have to suffer harassment, assault, violence and harm before the interests of female people are regarded with equal consideration to male people in this context. Ball park. What's acceptable amount of collateral damage to the human rights of females to further the provision of wider choice and wellbeing for males?

And I'm utterly staggered at the depth of the sexism inherent in the system that I even have to seriously ask that question.

Michelleoftheresistance

there will rapidly be female prisons in which there is nobody actually female other than some guards.

Rhona Hotchkiss, the former prison governor, last night predicted that if the current course continues and GRA reform comes to pass, there will be more men in the female estate than women.

She said there are now 22 males who identify as trans within the Scottish prison estate, not all of whom are in the female estate*. When she started ten years ago there were just 2.

Isn't that a horrifying way to put it - "not all of whom are in the female estate". If the majority of these men were in the male estate, then this would be expressed by saying "not all of whom are in the male estate". So that means at least a dozen men are in the female estate in Scotland. And we know how much harm just one aggressive male can do to women...

So women have their right to safety and dignity completely removed whilst the rates of "female" crime will rise. Fanfuckingtastic, having to meet in secret to discuss women's rights due to threats of violence, obviously nothing to worry about here Nicola Sturgeon. Move along, nothing to see here

If all biologically male prisoners who wish to can be placed in female prisons, then judging by the numbers of cat A sex offenders, there will rapidly be female prisons in which there is nobody actually female other than some guards.

I'm saying this, because we were informed unequivocally last night that legal experts as well as those working within the prison system agree that this will be the consequence of the planned GRA reform.

But as Lewis Moonie asked yesterday

If self-id comes into law, and everyone - the police, the courts, the prison - records a defendant's sex as per their self-identification, and treats them accordingly, and so places all males who identify as trans in the female estate by default, then wouldn't females who identify as trans also by default be placed in the male estate?

And if not (and we all know why not), then how would you justify that? And how would you justify that without at the same time also justifying not placing males who identify as trans in the female estate?

(As it takes time for cases to come to court, it's highly likely that a defendant can get a GRC before the trial even starts. And because there is no provision within the draft bill to change your legal sex back, any female with a GRC stating she is legally male, would not have an easy way to change back.)

Add that 'convince' of the consultation to Somerville's recent claim that she'd met with For Women Scotland, when she hadn't.

Stitch up, anyone?

Just a little bit angry about this, in our shining democratic socialist paradise.

Scrimshaw

Thanks for posting the link. Sums it up.

Yes you’re completely right - The use of the word ‘convince’ negates any point of the consultation.

She say that it is a contentious issues.

Too bloody right.- Locking full bodied adult Transwomen (yes - that’s men) in the same cell as any woman - particularly female inmates who are most likely to have been victims of sexual violence - is FUCKING contentious.

It’s clearly lunacy to place a trans man in a male prison for the same reason it’s lunacy to place a trans woman in a female prison.

But the needs of females don’t count.

AnyOldPrion No doubt Mr Yousef is a ‘proud feminist‘ like Nicola Sturgeon’??!!

Not reassuring...

From the Times article:

“Mr Yousaf said: “Acquiring a gender recognition certificate does not and will not give a prisoner any new legal rights regarding the decisions made by the Scottish Prison Service about their accommodation.”

All smoke and mirrors again. The only reason self-ID will not give any new legal rights is because they have already introduced self-ID for prisoners. But anyone reading this who did not know that would feel assured that nothing was changing as they would assume nobody would be so stupid as to put intact men in a women’s prison.

so the new consultation, accordint to Sturgeon is to 'convince those that have concerns about this that there is not a tension and there is not an inevitable conflict between trans rights and womens' rights, and that is work that is underway'.

That word, 'consultation', I do not think it means what you think it means ...

Trans men (woman who have transitioned to be men) don’t get put in men’s prisons because of the risk to them but trans women get put in a women’s prison despite the risk to woman.

Christ, when you put it like that ...

www.facebook.com/KennethGibsonSNP/videos/2701890286513906/

There is an article in the Scottish section of the Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-inmates-won-t-get-jail-choice-8l8kmnnhs?shareToken=dd80ece8f5e9bbf13b4d639e03c4baf2

Humza Yousaf thinks that the planned reforms will have no impact on prisoner accommodation, nothing at all to worry about, he says.

Some ppl don’t put their true name on twitter.

How’s that plan?

They should have a separate prison block for transwomen who have not transitioned fully. It’s a valid safety issue.

I've had my secret instructions about where to go for a meeting tonight of (mainly) women who want to discuss proposed legislation changes by the Scottish Gov. Why should women have to take such precautions for our safety over a legal meeting in 2020 to discuss women's rights?

Well, the meeting is definitely not a secret meeting with secret instruction if that was posted to Twitter by an attendee. Cover blown.

FFS

Sturgeon only self identifies as a feminist...

Mceleny

@snpchris

Response from Chris macelny. I can’t speel his name. But he is in SNP

Translates as: Trans men (woman who have transitioned to be men) don’t get put in men’s prisons because of the risk to them but trans women get put in a women’s prison despite the risk to woman.

That’s an actual example of women’s sex based rights being breached already.

Below from Sa Somerville on twitter

Clarification on risk assessment in prisons following #fmqs - SPS risk assessment process in relation to accommodating a trans person takes full account of any risks they may present to other prisoners, to staff and to themselves