Female prisoners in Scotland

HM Prisons Inspectorate Survey 2019 estimated 2% of male prisoners identify as transwomen - so there is a good argument already for special provision in the rest of the UK for transwomen who Self-ID (the ones with GRCs are counted as "women" not as "transgender").

According to HM Chief Inspector of Prisons’ Annual Report for 2018-19,

"a survey of 5,133 adult male prisoners found that 2 per cent self-identified as transgender which extrapolated across jails would mean about 1,500.

Transgender prisoners are entitled to shower alone, have separate cells and can apply to switch between male and female prisons."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5b445d82-b175-11e9-9df9-ac98825b867a

It has been suggested that a disproportionate number have been convicted of sexual offences. It is in everyone's interests to know whether or not there is any truth in this.

The only way to find out is to have accurate recording of the biological sex and transgender status of perpetrators - just as is already in place for victims.

The other interesting finding from that survey is that men who identify as "Travellers" are both most likely to report that they are victims of bullying and also most likely to identify as transgender. It is not hard to imagine that claiming to be trans might be code for, "Get me out of here!!"

Oh! And do we need to add to that number the sex offenders who are being doped with anti-androgens by the Prison Service, who grow breasts and then decide they are women? That process seems to be counter to the usual "born in the wrong body" trans narrative but apparently they are to be considered just as much legit trans as anyone else.

Top story in the Scottish section of the Sunday Times today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scots-trans-law-is-threat-to-women-says-ex-head-of-prison-snv7zwpmd?shareToken=d37d230f85dfe66f81a87bea19be1b74

Agreed about the article. Didn't want to paste and run but that was all I had time for. I hadn't read it and just wanted to add it to the thread.

Missed the meeting but know Rhona would have been amazing.

Eresh it would honestly probably be quicker to just list the agencies and people involved in training, policy writing and government advice in this area who have not turned out to have some highly dodgy skeletons in their closet, or in some case, openly dancing around on fb.

Not to mention the incestuousness in 3rd sector jobs at this level where the same small pool of people from said posts and agencies and including many such individuals just move between jobs, which has played a key part in enabling policy capture and regulatory shift to the benefit of such behaviours.

Because if a female prisoner objects to male-bodied people in their accommodation it's transphobia.

But if a male-bodied transwoman objects to being in men's prison they have a committee to check it's okay before moving them.

The point about threat means that all the focus remains on the male-bodied prisoners. What they want and their history of violence/assault etc. Still no consideration of the impact on the female-bodied prisoners, is that right? They just don't have a voice here. Doesn't matter, I presume, what they want or the impact on them or how they feel.

Given that posing a threat to other prisoners appears to be the main criteria for whether you are sent to this unit or a female prison if you have a GRC. What are the odds in a few thousand males in the UK (less than 1% of the trans population of both sexes which altogether is estimated at 1% of the population as a whole) with a GRC of 3 of them being dangerous prisoners, eh?

That article is ridiculous. My teeth grind involuntarily every time these biological males are referred to as "women". I've got the perfect solution for them to make it more social and interesting for them. They could put non GRC holding males who identify as women and are classified as posing a threat to other prisoners in there.

Wasn’t there some guy from prison service involved in writing guidance later found in possession of child abuse images ?

Yes I think so, I don't have much battery and out all day but I will dig it out later if no one posts it first.

When did anyone ever fret about women prisoners not getting enough to do ffs

Omg kittens. That piece.

They are in prison

This linked article is quite something. Oh no, someone in the special transwomen's wing of the women's prison was bored!

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-prison-wing-failed-its-inmates-phqkp0qff?shareToken=2a3076943d9bf9fabc221189f5585d05

Best response - "It's a prison not a daycare center"

Wasn’t there some guy from prison service involved in writing guidance later found in possession of child abuse images ?

Need rowan backm for this stuff

Cismyfatarse I'm afraid that's just an exercise in obfuscation.

Gender recognition certificates will not give transgender prisoners the right to choose whether they are sent to male or female jails, the justice secretary has said.

As Rhona Hotchkiss (former Scottish Prison Governor) told us yesterday, not one of the male prisoners currently located in the female estate has a GRC.

Yusaf is not lying by the way - the Scottish Government making it easier to receive a GRC will not make a difference. That's because a GRC is already not a requirement for a male to be transferred into the female estate. The Scottish Prison Service is operating on a purely self-ID basis.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-inmates-won-t-get-jail-choice-8l8kmnnhs?shareToken=1faf05f509c2bb15f0777257ec036327

Today's Times.

Yep it’s all about the mighty penis regardless of whether it’s a male or female penis

If they don’t care about female prisoners what about female guards? Surely the risk assessment for female guards is different when dealing with male prisoners?

Ah, Michelleoftheresistance has answered that already. Risks to just one party. The only one that matters.

Clearly, TheProdigalKittensReturn those who seek to allay our concerns use a different definition of risk to us. We know the majority of female prisoners have been victims of far worse crimes than they themselves have been imprisoned for. We know that most of them have been abused by men from a young age. As Rhona said yesterday, most of them have never had a nice man in their lives.

They have been and are traumatised by men. And we know from hundreds of thousands of case studies and research papers and books and articles and medical notes, that deeply traumatised female victims are frequently and involuntarily re-traumatised by the mere presence of males. Regardless of their presentation.

So we know that a male prisoner will retraumatise any number of these women by his mere presence. We also know, because Rhona reported this at the meeting, that precisely this has happened.

Now I don't know whether a nice guy imprisoned with women would have caused quite as much harm as the not-so-nice guys who were put into the Scottish female estate, but it's not rocket science to expect that a guy bad enough to get locked up in prison is not going to be all that nice.

So what risks are they looking at? Risks to mental and emotional well being are clearly not looked at. Risk of violence? Rhona told us if a guy had a violent history, including sexual and/or physical violence against women and children, that wasn't too recent, they still qualified.

So what risks are they looking at?

Because if they've been taking their "guidelines" from groups that think that unexpected penis in the women's showers is something that only evil bigoted witches could have concerns about it probably doesn't

It's the usual 'we can't possibly expect this one individual to suffer the humiliation and distress to their feelings of being offered separate, private facilities to shower in BUT we absolutely can expect every female in the situation to swallow their humiliation and distress to feelings and fear to get naked next to this fully intact biological male stranger.'

As I often point out, you see this absolute gross divide between what's good enough for the male person in the situation and what's good enough for the female in almost every domestic abuse situation.

I seem to remember from discussions on this pre or around the time of the White attacks on female prisoners, posts saying:

• Panels debating transfer of a prisoner to the female estate were advised solely by transgender advocates

• At these panels only the needs and risks to the prisoner were considered; the female prisoners were never even raised as a subject

• Risk assessments focused on the potential risks to the transferring prisoners, such as immediately removing any female who made the transferring prisoner feel unsafe.

• Policy was guided wholly by TRA groups and agencies. Females as a group were never in any way consulted, considered or represented in formation of policy.

I seem to remember on those threads there were either a poster or two with personal professional experience or who shared posts or records of this. The situation may have changed post White, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Thing is no matter which way they try to spin this if even one trans identifying male is placed in the women's estate then any others denied placement can claim discrimination. All or non.

This slippery non committal case by case fudgery is unacceptable.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison

Over a year on and nothing changed, nothing learned.

Clarification on risk assessment in prisons following #fmqs - SPS risk assessment process in relation to accommodating a trans person takes full account of any risks they may present to other prisoners, to staff and to themselves

Does it, though? Does it really? Because if they've been taking their "guidelines" from groups that think that unexpected penis in the women's showers is something that only evil bigoted witches could have concerns about it probably doesn't.

If transwomen are women how can you put them into male prisons?

How can you tell that they are the type of woman that has to go to a male prison and has no choice in this?

How can they insure that women don't end up in a male prison by mistake?

I mean biology is bigotry and we should police the contents of people's pants because it is irrelevant and there shouldn't be pant inspections. Lady penises in the shower are just fine because...

Either you believe that transwomen are women or you don't and if you don't then you are a bigoted terfy mcterf.

These people are so unbelievably stupid and desparate to prove they are woker than woke that even when they are acknowledging the issue they still can't admit it and they still can't say that gender critical women have a valid case, because they are evil terfs.

Honestly its shameful how they are handling this. Utterly shameful.

If trans men are not housed in the male prisons, where are they located?
Maybe all the women prisoners should self-identify as trans men and we can have a separate well designed facility built just for them. The trans women can have their lady prisons all to their feminine selves.
The male prison guards can self-id as women. I wonder how that would go down.