Nikkietutorials comes out as trans

I didn't actually realise before I saw this post (and subsequently went to see the video) she hasn't traded on being trans, she's come out at this point and I say fair play to her. I'm a woman (born female, always female) and I'm nearly 6 feet tall so to all of you saying the height should've given it away - that's rude.

Bronners1978

Which public toilets/changing rooms/hospital wards/prison estates should Nikky use?

Why, the same ones that Jane Faye, formerly known as John Ozimek uses, and the ones that Eddie Izzard uses, and Philip Bunce, and J Yaniv, and D Muscato, and Alex Drummond.
All those people share the same bodily sex as Nikky.
They also all claim to share the same 'gender identity' (albeit, not consistently for all of them) although I've yet to hear any of them explain what one of those is.
Nikky has everything in common with those people. Anatomy, and apparently also identity.

Unfortunately for all of them, they are all the opposite sex to half of us. And this half, my half, are entitled to distinguish ourselves from all of them, on account of us being the opposite sex to them.
I personally don't share a sex OR a 'gender identity' with any of them. (I don't believe gender identity actually exists as a communal group thing). I can't think of any reason why they should imagine we're a communal group.

So, whilst I'm certain that there are many, many people with whom Nikky will find both sex and 'gender' in common, allowing for shared, communal space, I'm even more certain that I have no commonality with Nikky.

There are of course many many people aside from those I've mentioned who would also be entirely content to share intimate spaces with Nikky et al. People of matching sex; people of opposite sex but the same purported identity. People pop up on these boards all the time to point out how happy they are to share with anyone born male, so long as they now 'identify as a woman', whatever that might mean.
And I say good luck to them.
Let's agree that extra spaces are needed.
The ones for people who demand privacy from the opposite sex, and extra for those who believe in communal gender identity and want to pee next to people who share similar thoughts.

Which leaves those of us who care about our own sex, and who value the importance of distinguishing ourselves from the opposite sex, with our same sex spaces intact.

The hard liners amongst you will still try to insist she should be excluded.
On the contrary, they should be included in the facilities appropriate to their sex.
As far as why this is front page news, I think that the influence of "Influencers" is newly discovered by mainstream media. They knew some made a career on Youtube but the size of the audience and the cash flow has come as a surprise. So, newsworthy.

The difference between men and women isn't about surgery or make up and it's offensive to suggest that it is.

I have watched her video now...

It is very clear that she is still very close to her mum and fully believes that her mum made the right choices for her as a child. She doesn't appear to harbour any resentment to her mum for taking her down that path, so hopefully this means she is totally happy with the path she has taken.

With regards to her boyfriend, she says she delayed telling him for a while until she felt secure and also safe enough to do so. She says she didn't want to leave it so long but she also couldn't tell him straight away. Fair enough I think. She also makes a point of urging other trans people to tell their partners ASAP, and seems to do this coming from a place of wanting people to be honest for the sake of the partner iyswim?

However, I was so disappointed in what she said about herself as a child, it was just all stereotypes. She said her mum 'knew' she was having a girl 'and she did have a girl' but there was obviously 'a bit of a problem'. And that her and her mum knew she was trans from a very early age because she played with dolls and Barbies and fake hair and wanted to wear dresses. What a damaging message to send to 12 million followers

But overall, I think she was very brave to do this and I really hope that she is happy.

not share spaces and access female services with cis women (apologies for that, it’s the only way to differentiate the two groups).

No it isn't. There is no such thing as "cis" and many women find it insulting and presumptuous. It is often deleted as it's against MN talk guidelines to call women that against our wishes. You don't have the right to label us. We are women, we don't need any prefix. So your question wasn't very respectful to us, was it?

You may not understand us, some won’t respect us and you certainly will not understand why some of us need to transition, but I hope that you can understand the reason the equality act and it’s statutory guidance is written the way it is.

On the contrary I actually can't understand it at all. I don't understand why the fact that one YouTube makeup artist (who is mostly seen only as a head and shoulders, who has arguably been exploited since childhood by parents who believed in gender stereotypes, and ironically has built their fame on doing makeup in that very over the top drag queen style) looks, on camera at least, as though they may 'pass' is somehow proof that any male who obtains a grc should be granted full access to women's prisons, hospitals, psychiatric wards, changing rooms etc. It blows my mind that such a law was ever passed in the first place and in 'real life', as opposed to online, I've actually only ever met one person who thinks it's all fine and good and fair.

apologies for that, it’s the only way to differentiate the two groups

You can differentiate between the two groups as women and transwomen. That is enough. Or females and males.

Fully don't understand why this was the top story on the BBC earlier. Seriously.

can't remember the exact wording but we have been warned about people coming on to the site and swearing blind that day is night for page after page after page.

Again, it's a little weird to suggest anybody who disagrees with you is a brigader or something. I'm here because I wanted to get out of my personal echo chambers and learn something new - which I have, even if I don't agree with every stance.

I’ve scanned through the thread, so apologies if this has been addressed and I missed it.

One of the main arguments you have here, and other forums is that trans women should not share spaces and access female services with cis women (apologies for that, it’s the only way to differentiate the two groups).

The question I ask, and I do so as respectfully as I can, is this.

Which public toilets should she use, which changing rooms? If she goes to a gym, or swimming pool should she be allowed in a communal changing room?

If admitted to hospital, should she be housed on a female ward? If imprisoned a female prison?

If she is raped or suffers domestic violence, should she be allowed into a women’s shelter?

The hard liners amongst you will still try to insist she should be excluded. However, I hope the majority here and certainly in wider society will respect her for who she is now and not define her by the genitals she was born with.

You may not understand us, some won’t respect us and you certainly will not understand why some of us need to transition, but I hope that you can understand the reason the equality act and it’s statutory guidance is written the way it is.

It accepts, and always has, that many trans men and women are indistinguishable from any other man or woman and the law has to be flexible enough to handle that reality.

I can't remember the exact wording but we have been warned about people coming on to the site and swearing blind that day is night for page after page after page.

I don't know any tall Dutch women but in my group of friends there are two women who are 6ft, one who is 6,3 and two who are just under 6ft. I have friends who are 5 ft nothing too. None of us are Dutch

Interesting how many people know "several" Dutch women at or above the 99.9th percentile for height in that country. Are all of them related, do you suppose, or do they just know basketball teams?

Knowing many women who are at the 99.9th percentile for any trait is a fairly remarkable circumstance. So remarkable that without an explanation for the clustering, it almost looks like a misrepresentation of the truth.

And yes, I have been dictated to, I've had a post deleted for stating I thought Nikkie was trans when I first saw them, so yes, you are attempting to silence women.

Not me. I'm happy for your type of posts to stand for all to see.

Well, 9 pages in and I am not persuaded to watch my first ever YouTube make-up video.

I agree that this does not seem to be a feminist issue and would be better in Celebrity Gossip.

Beg pardon

outfoxed no, I didn't, I've used 'they' throughout.

@UpfieldHatesWomen from what you said about your deleted post a few posts/pages ago, your post was deleted because you referred to them by their pronoun appropriate for their birth sex rather than their current identity. Which it's fairly common knowledge is against MN rules.

if they hadn't come out you would never have expressed any concern about their videos
That’s a tad unfair - most of us have never heard of Nikki until this coming out publicity.

rocketmen not at all, I have zero interest in tearing anyone apart, I need to do some other stuff right now actually. The feminist forum is here for the discussion of feminist issues not for being policed by those who only come here to silence women - a crazy idea, I know.

I was given a gender at birth that I don't feel fits me in any shape or form for multiple reasons and certain surgeries will help me feel more comfortable with my body.

You do you, but I'm going to call you out on the unfactual and unhelpful language used there. Unless somebody rolled a dice and assigned you a pink or blue nappy, your sex was observed at birth.

How do you propose society changes? I don't think societal changes will affect the rate of transgender individuals a huge deal tbh. There's transgender people in every culture, including those without contact to the western world. What about transgender men, by the way? I don't see them mentioned much and I don't know how they fall into the GC views.

I think that there are huge numbers more youngsters deciding that they are trans than ever before - and that part of that reason is the way trans education in schools is influenced by trans campaigners.

As for what about trans men - I suggest you don't want to go looking for the current period and trans men thread. I'm gender critical and I appreciate mumsnet as a space to discuss how trans rights campaigning can be problematic for women's rights, and I'll defend FWR board against lots of accusations of transphobia but I think a lot of comments on that thread are hideous and attacking women who identify as trans men. A FEMINISM board being so nasty about the people they insist are FEMALE more than they are concerned for their welfare is a bit much for me.

Of course, you're welcome to disagree. I never said that you couldn't, but you're provoking/goading somebody for a response at this point that you're just going to tear apart.

rocketmen I mean of course other views are welcome.

You don't have much sense of irony do you Upfield?

My analysis of this discussion is that it is blatantly obvious that you only have an issue with this person because they are trans, and if they hadn't come out you would never have expressed any concern about their videos.