Can anyone explain to me (related to TRA)...

There is also this very moving post from last summer that I think not only struck a chord with many lesbians but made other women aware of the type of attack and undermining lesbians are facing today.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3621239-Being-a-homosexual-female-in-a-community-of-queer-people-transbians-and-penis-inclusionary-lesbians

Also google Detrainsitioners Advocacy Network.

I dont have all the links but it is worth keeping an eye of the LGB Alliance which has recently formed to fight for the right of same sex attraction being just that, because Stonewall and other groups are now so indoctrinated by the trans narrative that even thought they say the represent lesbians and gay men they side with the arguement that self identity and gender are the same as sex (biological) and sex (attraction). lgballiance.org.uk/ Also on twitter twitter.com/alliancelgb?lang=en

In fact the extent to which particularly lesbians have been under attack for not complying with the trans queer agenda that some lesbians started a group (campaign?) called Get the L Out because of what is now known as lesbian erasure. www.gettheloutuk.com/ As a result lesbians in other countries have set up similar groups.

@Ereshkigal I accept that that’s your belief of it but just because you don’t accept that TWAW and TMAM it doesn’t mean that other people agree with you. I think it’s shitty when people immediately comment that someone isn’t gay/straight when dating a trans person. Why not just keep that thought in your head, I’m not policing it, why comment and tell people they’re not really the identity they describe themselves as. That’s not kind behaviour, it’s not affecting you. You’re not the one in the relationship. I don’t understand this vitriolic way of thinking.

Also not all trans people sign up to this type of thinking. The trans women I have met in real life do not. It seems to be more the keyboard warriors on twitter!

I think it's important to remember that being critical of the trans movement and its ideology is not the same as not accepting trans people - although a lot of TRAs like to suggest it is and that by pointing out the obvious homophobia we are "denying their existence". This is why the "no debate" stance is so damaging.

To look at how some gay men have reacted there's an interesting data lounge thread about the Juno Dawson quote.
Also there was a gay identifying transman who demanded access to a gay sauna in London and data lounge made mincemeat of that idea.

When I hear gay trans man, if I go by the fact that words have meanings, I think this is a lesbian. However who knows?

There's also discussion that often women who transition to be what they call "gay men" have been influenced by some type of Japanese cartoon porn, and then experience ROGD.

Have a look at the situation in Iran OP.

And ask yourself why a violently homophobic islamic theocracy has such high rates of male to female transitions.

I've heard it called 'transing away the gay'.

Interesting question, Spartacus.

Thanks for showing the OP further how being a lesbian has been appropriated and erased by males and bisexual women.

I should clarify, some of these women in relationships with MTF trans people are straight, not bisexual. So straight women are more than capable of appropriation and erasure in exactly the same way.

A thread I started to collect evidence of the "Cotton Ceiling"

"Cotton Ceiling" evidence thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294339-cotton-ceiling-evidence-thread

People should be able to identify as what best fits them (which also means stop saying lesbians dating trans women are bi, seriously, it’s SO shitty)

They are though. I get that the truth sometimes hurts and that's too bad, but a lesbian is a female person attracted only to her own sex. This definition matters to lesbian women (as the corresponding one matters to most gay men). It is the basis of legal protection for people in same sex relationships.

These women are in a relationship with a male person. Therefore they are bisexual. They can do what they like, identity as whatever they like, but they haven't changed the definition of lesbian, just like MTF trans people haven't changed most people's definition of "woman".

Or do you think two bepenised bearded males in a same sex relationship are actually a lesbian couple too, if they both utter the magic words "I am a woman"?

Thanks for showing the OP further how being a lesbian has been appropriated and erased by males and bisexual women.

From some FB friends I have connected to the boxer ceiling I've seen anecdotal evidence of women who are either non binary or transmen who appear to have such an ego that gay men will want to have sex with them.

It's quite disturbing to read some of their accounts and I've seen similar of transwomen who take it very personally when heterosexual men don't want to date them. It can descend into some quite nasty stuff.

Some of the stuff around kids is akin to conversion therapy, I've seen evidence of this coming from America where the parents are very strict and/or religious.

Also some of the online backlash around the launch of the LGB Alliance reads like an abusive relationship where the abused partner cannot leave. The tactics used are quite obvious in some cases. I've been accused of being homophobic for criticism Stonewall (it's only the trans ideology and Stonewall 'law' I object to).

Riley Dennis

Also just so you know I don’t agree with people who say gay people are just straight trans people - you can be trans and gay! My best friend is a gay trans man!

Theres also the implication that homosexuals are just trans people who havent realised it yet, which is erasing homosexuality and homophobic in itself.

It's not just an implication. The oh so fragrant Juno Dawson is on record saying it.

www.gaystarnews.com/article/juno-dawson-gay-men-consolation-prize/

She said: ‘A lot of gay men are gay men as a consolation prize because they couldn’t be women’

Funnily enough the original 2017 Attitude magazine article this was in has been taken down, and I only read it not that long ago.

Oh Juno....homophobia ain't a good look is it?

I don’t find this with most people I know who are trans/enby. I think you like who you like and that’s it - whether they’re a man, woman, whatever - and no one can change that or force people to be with someone they’re not attracted to. You never know, 5 years time you might fall madly in love with a trans person! Not liking someone isn’t a crime though. I’ve always liked the Kinsey scale - my philosophy is that most probably no one is 100% gay or straight, the likelihood is there’s at least 1 person out there who would be attractive to you. Not going to diminish other people’s sexualities though!! People should be able to identify as what best fits them (which also means stop saying lesbians dating trans women are bi, seriously, it’s SO shitty)

"I have heard the idea, too, that some TRAs believe that if you are a gay male you are just a transwoman without the courage to transition."
Ah yes, the interview given by author Juno Dawson to Attitude magazine! For some reason Attitude have removed it from their website, but Gay Star News still have it.

www.gaystarnews.com/article/juno-dawson-gay-men-consolation-prize/

It provide a means by lesbians can be denounced as transphobes if they flatly refuse to accept men, however they identify, as potential partnera

Some have even taken to twitter to announce that the only acceptable sexuality is pansexuality.

So men must be e included at all times

They don't accept that people are sexually attracted to one another based on sex, not gender.

You've got to actually realise what this means. That homosexual people, rather than being attracted to same sex partners, are attracted to gender so being a gay men is attraction to masculine presenting people (even if they're women) and being a gay woman is attraction to feminine presenting people (even if they're men).

This has a number of consequences. It sets rules about how people should present. It is an attempt to eliminate same sex attraction. It provide a means by lesbians can be denounced as transphobes if they flatly refuse to accept men, however they identify, as potential partners.

In Pakistan homosexuality is a sin and you can be imprisoned or stoned to death.

Trans however is fine.

Bit of an own goal when penis news celebrated their trans inclusivity with that one. Forgot why nen were transing in the first place

yes I think a prominent TRA actually said that gay men just didn't have the courage to accept they were 'really transwomen'

somebody can probably provide a citation