Story of Richard Hoskins detrasitioner in Mail on Sunday

I'm astonished by all the fawning responses. Hundreds, thousands of people lose children and close family members to suicide and mental health issues each year (I know, I'm one of them) and yet how many go off and do this to themselves?

All I see is me, me, me, me, poor me. Ego the size of a house. Left the decision to switch off his son's life support machine to his wife. Not a word about the effect of his behaviour on his wives or child. Career made writing books about ritual and religious killings – he knows what sells. The whole thing reeks of narcissism, including only mentioning his current 'companion' in terms of her taking care of him and telling him how good he looks.

I'm glad he's written it, I hope he's happier now, but its main value is that it reinforces, as others have said, the suspicion that some men do just regard 'woman' as a look and women as existing to support and do the things they don't want to do. Can't tell you how disturbing I find not only the article but the 'oh, poor man' comments.

I feel sad for his loss (I'm not sure if I'd still be here in those circumstances) but there are a few points I'd make about this story:

1, He blames the NHS 'machine' for fast-tracking him through the system in six weeks. I've never met any trans person who has been through the system that quickly. What is apparently most soul-destroying for them is that after waiting a couple of years for their first appointment and thinking 'right, this is the start' they then find that it is weeks, if not months until their next one.

2, He hints at finding the right answers to give on Google which suggests a degree of maybe not being entirely straight with those who are there to help. I'm not sure if this is him saying that he did it or suggesting that others might. Are the medics expected to be mind-readers every time if someone is going in saying the right thing? It's a bit rich to blame the system if you go in aiming to engineer a certain outcome.

3, He was already self-medding which the NHS clearly does not recommend.

Apart from that, this is yet another example of a detransitioner or transition-regretter being given immediate access to certain sections of the nation press which has an agenda a mile wide as far as trans people go. The truth is that the vast majority of trans people are happy with their choices and the rates of detransitioning are tiny. The national press and others with an agenda will continue to push unverifiable claims by those who claim to know 'hundreds' of detransitioners and 'surveys' by groups that smell of being written up in ten minutes or so over a cup of coffee.

I always have felt uneasy about what happened precisely because underlying mental health issues and trauma were outright ignored and this presented as a quick fix.

It does make you realise how much stigma is still attached to extremely poor mental health, doesn't it?

Exactly! I mean I don’t want to derail and it’s very possible that they had discussed it, but It comes across in the article as ‘ it was all so hard for me I had to walk away and leave her to decide alone because my feelings were more important’

I really hope someone was there for her

That was what I was thinking. His ex wife must have been just as distraught as him. Did he ask her if she wanted to be left to make the decision on her own, or just assume, because women exist to support men?

But sometimes as people who are strong enough to do the things they can't do. A sort of mother figure.

The saintly suffering mother who is worshipped to an unhealthy level or the overbearing suffocating mother who can't do enough for her children.

Take your pick.

Nothing about this article shocks or surprises me.

The only thing I see is things that I identify with within my own family's experience and the total lack of proper gatekeeping and critical thought.

Questions that should have been addressed were ignored or tip toed around and the NHS fast tracking definitely played a role in it.

Everyone acted out of fear and trying to be nice rather than asking the bleeding obvious and challenging behaviour which was clearly not part of a healthy balanced lifestyle.

It's escapism.

My brother had a pattern of behaviour about escaping reality before being trans came up. He was indulged in this.

I always have felt uneasy about what happened precisely because underlying mental health issues and trauma were outright ignored and this presented as a quick fix.

I'm sure it's the case in a awful lot of people and the issue of post transition suicide is one that is conveniently swept under the carpet and ignored.

@OldCrone I’ll admit that sentence fair took my breath away! I mean he was obviously in unimaginable pain - but he left that decision to his ex wife to make alone? Jfc! I really hope someone was there for her

I think that fits with their view of women - to nurse and prop men up.

Absolutely. We are the support humans.

It seems many men only see women as accessories to their own desires, having no conception that we are sentient beings with our own aspirations, desires, agendas.

But sometimes as people who are strong enough to do the things they can't do. A sort of mother figure.

I said goodbye to him the day before he died on December 4, 2009. I left the decision to switch off his life to his mother, Sue. I simply could not do it.

YY. Many of these male people have fucked up views about women. Not just trans MTF people, a lot of men don't see women they don't know or care about as people. I formerly used to post on sites where I discussed sexual harassment with men and many really do seem to think we are just background scenery in their busy and important lives.

Reminding them that other men feel the same way about their wives and daughters sometimes helps, but it's depressing that we have to.

Wht a tragic story.

I wonder if the PTSD is connected - someone was discussing how so many ex-military are affected by dysphoria. I don't suppose anybody would be able to look at that link, would they? Seeing as it's not an illness or disorder and there's absolutely no need to consider why so many people are feeling such distress at their 'wrong bodies' or 'wrong brains'? Best to just have them try out the full transition, surgery, irreversible decisions, and then see how they feel afterwards?

I really don't understand why more TRAs aren't furious about how they are being treated - essentially as bottomless cash pits for plastic surgeons and private clinics/medics (and Not All Medics, I know).

But what struck me about the article was that men, even-cross dressing men (or possibly particularly cross-dressing men), don’t see women as fully human.
Indeed. In the article he says he was "Inspired by youthful images of smiling women". It seems like this desire to become a 'woman' comes from a false impression of what life is like for women, gained from advertising, movies, the media and porn. It's the same kind of expectations that causes men to demand random women smile for them, as though we exist solely for their entertainment, or why groups of drunk men descend on a lone woman walking through town and expect her to take their sexual innuendos and touching in good-humour - because what else does she exist for? - or why women get followed around the gym and pestered or gawped at when they're trying to work-out, because these men's minds are filled with porno fantasies. It seems many men only see women as accessories to their own desires, having no conception that we are sentient beings with our own aspirations, desires, agendas.

This was very sad to read

However it was interesting that both he and David - the Telegraph columnist - had female friends offering to nurse and support them after the surgery. In David’s case he mentioned her reassuring him that he looked fabulous or something. I think that fits with their view of women - to nurse and prop men up.

Poor man - so much grief

What a sad story. What happened to his son is truly awful. And at last the link is made that this can be prompted by deep trauma but trauma that is not intrinsically about gender dysphoria.

I’m sure the Webberleys and the like get their patients to sign lots of consent forms etc to cover their arses when the inevitable shit hits the fan.

Poor James Caspian must be grinding his teeth at how hard it has been to draw attention to the plight of detransitioners. The only saving grace is that that their stories are now being heard.

I wish the gender ID clinics and Webberleys would take heed.

But this is big business now.

The ease at which the NHS signs this off is indeed shocking.

Poor guy. What a lot he has had to cope with.

Acceptance without exception is causing untold damage to people’s lives.

He will no doubt face considerable abuse for telling his story. It's tragic how easily his massive trauma and bereavement was completely ignored. That 'memorandum of good practice' forced on the medical profession by powerful lobby groups has a lot to answer for.

I'm glad he's written this and that the Mail have published it, especially that he draws the parallel with children and adolescents and co morbidities. I can only hope that he is able to finally able to find some peace.

Yes I was shocked at the ease with which the NHS signed off on the surgery. How much money must this all cost? Especially when people are being denied treatments elsewhere due to funding.

I'm also now fuming over the 80 hours electrolysis that he was given. Something that is routinely denied to hirsute women. I have embarrassingly dark hair on my face and have had so since I was a teen (enough that I could grow a beard if left to it's own devices). I have been turned down for help numerous times at the doctors as it has affected my self confidence and worth.

It's like we're second class citizens isn't it.

80 hours of electrolysis on the NHS? As far as I am aware, women with PCOS don’t qualify for any funded electrolysis. It’s an interesting account, but I am gobsmacked at the level of resource being thrown at this when NHS rationing is so extensive in other conditions. Many regions will only treat a cataract in one eye if both are affected on the basis that “one good eye” is sufficient. Women with crippling back pain from large breasts are expected to fund their own breast reduction surgery privately. I could go on and on. If this was treated like other areas of practice, talking therapy would be tried first as a less invasive approach - and to manage costs to the NHS - with surgery offered as a last resort.

Dance, my thoughts exactly.

Poor man. His story is desperately sad. It's very brave of him to come forward.