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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Spousal veto

435 replies

midgebabe · 11/01/2020 10:02

So I have read various transwidow and spousal veto threads but am still struggling to understand why (rationally, not emotively) I should support the continuation of the spousal veto as it is commonly called (spousal untangling period). I guess because what I see on those threads is so much mixed up with hurt and abuse.

I am starting the thread because if it isn’t clear to me then I suspect it would be difficult to make the case to others outside of the feminist community.

I have seen

It’s necessary for women who’s religion does not allow divorce…but that to me is a wider problem than just transition …what happens to those women in DV cases etc

No one should be forced into a lesbian marriage ..which seems homophobic , like what’s wrong with lesbian marriage. I guess I also struggle here because whilst the words have changed once the legal process has completed, the person hasn’t

If we take out abuse, people changing beyond recognition, someone using the transition as a way to bully/taunt the other person, why should one legal process be dependent on the other?

Or is it rarely possible to take abuse out of this? Even if people may not be totally happy, there are cases where people have stayed together "in sickness and in health" , and their lack of joy may be related to viewing this as a health problem rather than an indication of abuse?

OP posts:
OldCrone · 17/01/2020 22:53

I reported MichaelMumsnet's post on the webchat thread with this comment:

"I am concerned that a question by TinselAngel was deleted. Her question relates directly to Jess Phillips saying that it is 'awful' that a woman is allowed to choose to end her marriage before the nature of that marriage is fundamentally changed by her husband gaining legal recognition as a woman. As TinselAngel pointed out, Jess Phillips says that she supports women who have suffered domestic abuse and she should be aware of the potential for abuse in such circumstances. Jess Phillips is actively campaigning to take rights away from women in these circumstances. She should be made fully aware about what she is doing and held to account."

I've just had a reply:

There are good reasons why we have guidelines around follow up posts and not repeating the same question over and over, or allowing the discussion to be hijacked by a single issue.

First, it turns off other Mumsnet users from participating - meaning that the webchat as a whole stops representing our users in the round. (We've received plenty of representation from other Mumsnet users on this point in the past year or so and we know this is why many of them have stopped engaging with webchats.)

Secondly we're finding it increasingly hard to tempt politicians onto Mumsnet because of fears they'll simply be harangued about this single issue and shouted at for not providing the desired response - which ultimately means no one will get to ask any of these important questions to our policy makers.


I started to write a reply to that, but I think it's probably pointless.

GirlDownUnder · 17/01/2020 22:45

FFS Tinsel - you’re always polite and measured; your content on FWR has helped so many people, and this is a poor show.

I’m sorry you are being gagged on what is predominantly a women’s website for asking a fair question of a would be PM related to their policies.

TinselAngel · 17/01/2020 22:27

Have MNHQ got somebody on 24 hour duty over the weekend just to delete my question?

Cwenthryth · 17/01/2020 22:25

Do you think MNHQ would allow a question on should women on MN be permitted to ask her about issues around sex and gender identification, or if she agrees that she should be shielded from such questions?

Can we just draw her attention to this thread and others on here.

OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 22:20

So I'm going to ask her myself. Joint letter?

Please DM me if interested.

I thought the compliment on her books might have helped it to stick but no-go.

OldCrone · 17/01/2020 22:13

And... it's gone. That didn't take long.

OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 21:52

Can't hurt to try Grin

TinselAngel · 17/01/2020 21:49

Maybe everyone should ask it! Grin

OhHolyJesus · 17/01/2020 21:46

Hi Tinsel I've been very cheeky and asked your question again, just to see if it stands.

Will count down to deletion in 3,2,1...

TinselAngel · 17/01/2020 21:39

I thought the term “transwidow” was problematic on some boards?

Surely we've won that particular battle on MN?

GirlDownUnder · 17/01/2020 21:36

TinselAngel well that sucks!

I thought the term “transwidow” was problematic on some boards? Maybe that’s why?

Doesn’t explain the no deletion email or conversation though 😬

LangCleg · 17/01/2020 19:40

I got a suspension warning on the last webchat for asking more than question. Jus' sayin'.

birdsdestiny · 17/01/2020 19:35

How can they do that. Someone at MNHQ must have read the transwidows threads. How could they even think that shouldn't be a question. I dont know what else to say.

TinselAngel · 17/01/2020 19:29

Yes Spartacus. No deletion message, no email, nothing.

borntobequiet · 17/01/2020 19:29

I mean the OP on this thread.

Cascade220 · 17/01/2020 19:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

borntobequiet · 17/01/2020 19:23

That deletion is shocking. And I’ve only just realised how disingenuous the original post is. How can anyone have read the Transwidows threads and not realised why any spouse should have a get out mechanism? Sorry if pps have pointed this out.

LangCleg · 17/01/2020 17:34

You could try a site stuff thread?

Very poor form, MNHQ.

TinselAngel · 17/01/2020 17:31

I'm not sure how I'd arrange that given my post expressing disappointment has also been deleted!

Cascade220 · 17/01/2020 17:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TinselAngel · 17/01/2020 17:20

If Mumsnet won't help Trans Widows ask this question, nobody will.

Cascade220 · 17/01/2020 17:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LangCleg · 17/01/2020 17:04

I'm sorry, Tinsel. It's not good.

Melroses · 17/01/2020 17:01
Angry
TinselAngel · 17/01/2020 16:54

I'm really annoyed. Trans Widows are so widely silenced I never thought MN would collaborate with our silencing.

It wasn't a question about sex and gender, it's a question about a situation which could lead to the exacerbation of domestic abuse. ie particularly relevant to Jess.

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