M&S + John Lewis - your poor Christmas sales will be due to the contempt you've shown your female customers

I'd go back tomorrow if they issued a clear statement admitting they'd made a mistake, apologising for the offence and anger it caused, and setting a clear acceptable policy of men only, women only, AND a third mixed space for those who might need help changing from parent, partner etc. And reviewing all spaces for personal security. I hope head office are at panic stations at the moment because I would not want to see a British institution and its staff going under.

Just had a quick scroll through their official Twitter feed.

I see the food & drink tweets hugely outnumber their clothing tweets - I wonder if it's because most of the responses focus on reactions to their 'men in the ladies' changing rooms' policy ...

I don't envy the social media teams, currently trying to compose fashion tweets that don't trigger ridicule!

I've been boycotting since early November - and my weekly shop was at M&S as well as Christmas/birthday shopping so it's cost them a few thousand so far - but I've still got vouchers to spend.

I plan to redeem them at my usual M&S food store - not a penny more - and seek out the manager to explain why, with regret, I no longer shop there. She's usually out and about on the shop floor and always came over for a chat and some feedback when we did our weekly shopping because it's a relatively new store and still trying to establish a regular customer base. I got the distinct impression that the store still hasn't quite got the volume of customers it had hoped for and needs to grow quickly to make it viable.

I will also explain my less-than-satisfactory experience with the stock response to my initial email complaint and the deafening silence that greeted subsequent emails.

She can include that in her feedback to Area.

Quite, floof.

You’ve got to ask how we’ve got from ‘I want to be offered smart, stylish, contemporary, right materials, right price’ to ‘can I have something that hasn’t been jizzed on?’

I would just prefer the big chains to focus on responsibly turning a profit by selling what their customers want

I think I would settle for knickers that definitely haven't been wanked on.
Early last year I would have thought this a given in all shops except those catering to the actual fetish (yes there are some, no dont Google it) it's not even much of an ask, but apparently it cannot be guaranteed.
I'm gypping as I type, cant imagine how bad it will get when i have to go into a shop and buy some.
One thing is certain, it wont be m and s i go in, not solely for the change rooms, but because I cant unsee those reviews.

Entirely fair. I remain happy to spend in the big retail beasts - I don’t think a pound spent in a local shop is morally superior to a large chain. Everyone’s ethics are their own, and I say that as a small business owner.

I would just prefer the big chains to focus on responsibly turning a profit by selling what their customers want, rather than presuming to lecture us on their rapidly-becoming-dated take on equality issues.

Nope, 'do better' doesn't mean what it used to mean ten minutes ago Bobbly

It has been inclusified and repurposed and now means whatever the fuck Lang wants it to mean Other Things.

Lang "It made me get off my arse and do better."

It's the wrong kind of "do better" though. You know that

Suggest you go "educate yourself"

So now there's designated men only changing areas and other men's changing areas where women are allowed in. Basic discrimination. Less favourable treatment based on the protected characteristic of sex. QED. Can we persuade FPFW to bring the case? The compensation pay out should be pretty good and that would finance plenty of leaflets and conferences.

Wholly agree with Lang : Woke Capitalism can fottfsof. Woke has just become another word for self righteous misogyny.

And I'd also like, in Lang's very positive spirit, to mention and thank Always, for their ending my buying of disposable sanwear and moving on to reusable. Gosh the difference when you're not wearing harsh chemicals against your skin, and nothing to landfill. Wins all around.

I bought nothing from M&S. Nothing to do with the changing room issue though. Their clothes are awful - they don't know their customer anymore. The sizing is erratic. Quality is poor. Let the virtue-signallers think it's the changing room thing if it makes them feel better. But for me, and probably lots of others, they need a wholesale sacking of their management and fashion designers and quality control managers if they want a better future.

Yes to everything you said, @LangCleg.

I'm very happy with the step away from corporate (especially Woke) capitalism M&S and their misogyny has pushed me into.

I'm doing more to support independents in an environment where local high streets are struggling.

I've reduced my food miles.

I've helped a woman who's trying to grow her business so that she can get off UC.

I've found a clothing store that knows what a woman is.

I've cut down my transport costs.

I've put more cash into my local rural economy.

So I'd pretty much say that M&S has lost my business for good and also that this is a good thing, not only for women, but in general ethical terms. I'm grateful to M&S for their stark, brazen misogyny, really. It made me get off my arse and do better.

I don’t think it’s /just/ the changing rooms thing, but they’ve seemed weirdly out of step with their core demographic for a while. Look at the clothing they sell. They’ve had a couple of bad years which seem to be worse than you might predict based on general trading conditions.

I don’t particularly want them to go out of business - they employ a lot of mainly women, by the look of the shop floor, and they’re a long standing British brand. I’d like them to listen and evolve. I’d be pleased to stop boycotting them, but at the moment my principles override my desire for new tights.

Reducing women’s provision...

It’s just like all the gender neutral loos. Mens facilities are retained (that’s the subtext of noting the urinals - not for you, women) and women’s are a free for all, effectively reducing women’s. This practice needs to challenged in the courts on sex discrimination grounds.

"My friend was in @marksandspencer Watford when a man came into the women's changing room. He came in because M&S have removed the word woman from the sign. We don't want equal access to the men's room we want the word woman back on the female changing area. Thanks t.co/6BPqf1jCIb "

twitter.com/RadFemPirate/status/1216347167692115968?s=19

I am another one, would spend at Xmas on luxury food, treat myself to a nice meal and treats from there every fortnight or so and buy all underwear from there. Haven't set foot in there for months. Its not much compared to some people but it means alot to me.

You're not alone Pearlkent. There's a real cognitive dissonance going on in M & S. At a time when there's an increase in covert filming by men of women in changing rooms & toilets, upskirting and posting these images on internet sites, M & S respond by opening up their women's changing rooms to any man who fancies access. It makes little sense unless they really are heading for a more niche "fetish" customer base rather than all us women / parents / families that I thought were their core demographic?
And people do seem to be aware of this odd decision and are fairly unanimous in their distaste.

they told me they didn't value my custom so I have obliged by shopping elsewhere

When somebody tells you who they are, believe them

I'm a bit of a lurker on here but do occasionally post. I have made a conscious effort not to buy so much as a sandwich from M&S since this debacle. Admittedly I had already part-boycotted them due to a temporary Christmas job I had with them years ago when I saw how badly they treated their staff (and food-storage issues, mice etc) so it wasn't that difficult.
The thing is, I have mentioned the changing rooms/online lingerie reviews to friends and family in passing, all of whom were horrified, so I like to think I have raised awareness.
Much as I don't want businesses to go "bust", they need to listen to their customers. As has been said repeatedly by more eloquent posters, they told me they didn't value my custom so I have obliged by shopping elsewhere.

And not foreskinned, we hope.

Dangerfloof I made sure I only bought from unopened packets. Forewarned is forearmed.

Nah @Glaceon

I am not involved with a company that uses women to prop up men's fetishes.

Might make this my 2020 mantra.