M&S + John Lewis - your poor Christmas sales will be due to the contempt you've shown your female customers

Thousands more like me.

I doubt it. I get the impression that some of the spending 'claims' on this thread are about trying to create an impression rather than having much basis in reality.

I doubt it has anything to do with drop in sales. Most folk don’t know anything about this or if they caught a paragraph - didn’t give it much thought. Their stance is annoying but i doubt it’s stopped folk shopping there

Yup. On an average Christmas i would spend about £500 in each of those shops, altogether. Not this year! Thousands more like me.

Woke capitalism is yesterday's news

Very last decade.

Hopefully wokerism in general is also last decade. I assume Brits have been scared by virtue signaling over Brexit, with frustrated with being neither listened to or heard.

A different topic altogether, and one I hesitate to raise, but amongst the Mail's endless and often vacuous writing on Harry and Meghan was a rather good essay by Patrick Jephson, a former Royal Private Secretary, and from my own experience, an all round good-egg.

Two quotes:
"And there was the dilemma. Should Harry and Meghan have stopped the preaching and self-pity, binned the woke activism and joined what is still the royal mainstream of uncomplaining duty; or are they right to have redoubled their social justice agenda, burned brighter the flame of feminism and put their fame to work saving the planet — all while baring their most tender emotional bruises?"

"The country she left in 2019 to take her North American break has changed, with a rising mood of scepticism towards identity politics and the language of social justice, much of it imported from Meghan’s birthplace."

Perhaps the tide is turning. JKR, Ricky Gervais etc. A shift in approach from the BBC and others. Perhaps we can consign gender politics, Stonewall, and other wokeism to the last decade as well.

Then we count the cost. Boris as PM with a hefty mandate, turning our backs on the EU and perhaps the rest of the world, a resurgence of social conservatism, and perhaps the loss of M&S and JL from our High Streets, and the BBC as we know it. Despite this, when it is all set out, I prefer proper democracy than the woke dictators that tried to control our speech, thought, reality and dignity.

Hope they go under.

I'm sure all the female staff will be delighted to hear that.

I haven’t spent one single solitary penny in M&S since they showed their utter contempt for women. Hope they go under.

You might as well not go out to shop anywhere seeing as pretty much every business is going to operate the same policies.

Oh, I found plenty who don't. An entire Christmas spend's worth, in fact. And I spend a lot at Christmas. Mahousive family dontchaknow.

Like I say, once Wanky Wokeism irritates you sufficiently that you don't take the path of least resistance, you find all sorts of delights - so much better than the dross the WW tried to shove down your throat.

Do keep trying though, dear. Goddess loves a trier.

That's the solution justcly .Support smaller businesses and quietly tell our friends so that the predatory inclined don't find out and target them.

It's worth repeating - no women anywhere are demanding to share changing rooms, toilets, hospital wards etc with men. And as the wheels gradually fall off this toxic ideology, things will change. I just hope it's before too many women and children are harmed.

I would have taken my daughter to M&S for her first bra (well, bras actually) in December. Instead I took her to a small independent in our nearest town. The customer service was fantastic, and there were no men Yaniving about in the changing rooms. It was more expensive but honestly, the bras were so much better quality, with a great choice of really pretty ones. I'm theirs forever now.

You might as well not go out to shop anywhere seeing as pretty much every business is going to operate the same policies.

It's like politics and out of touch politicians. They've lost any sense or idea of what real people want and what motivates them.

It's exactly like that. Woke capitalism is yesterday's news.

I'm target market but not a regular M&S or JL shopper. I'll buy occasionally if there is something worthwhile getting.

Therein lies their problem.

I looked around them over Christmas and found them both to be over priced, disorganised and full of crap. And their bright idea of marketing themselves by being woke puts me off even more. Why would I want to shop there? I'm struggling to find reasons to even look in there again as a result.

Their useless buyers and marketers are making it considerably easier, boycott or not boycott, to shop elsewhere and for me to feel better for doing so. And my bank account is healthier for it too.

It's like politics and out of touch politicians. They've lost any sense or idea of what real people want and what motivates them.

I think living on social media has distorted perceptions of people in marketing and fashion.

It's showing.

My refusal to spend anything at M&S may not have made a difference to them, but I feel better.

Still boycotting. Would have spent around 300 at xmas time and need suits for 2 boys this weekend, will be buying them elsewhere too. Who knows if it has made a difference or not, that's for M & S to try to work out, although their analysis of customer needs and behaviour doesn't appear to be too effective.

For the doubters, off the top of my head...

£80 a week now longer going to Ocado for last 18 months

£500 a year no longer to M&S

A packet of fishfingers a week no longer going to Birdseye

Other retailers that allow men in the women's changing rooms - at least £300 a year, now going to charity shops and ethical online retailers

Presents received from M&S won't be returned but two relatives have been told that I do not want gifts from them in the future so this influences their buying habits, as well as where they now get their own underwear from, as the word spreads...

If anyone, in retail or just popping on here to tell us we can't make an impact, M&S closed 100 stores in 2018 and 60% of sales come from food sales.

The 'pink pound' is estimated to equate to £6bn a year - do you think women don't have the same purchasing power as retailers try to lure us to spend our money with them?

Money talks.

My mum has needed to use the accessible cubicle for a number of years, and now really needs actual physical assistance if trying on new clothes (because the give of the fabric/s, positioning of a fastening, additional loops of material to secure to the hanger etc etc all make a huge difference to suitability).

I broached the subject of M&S changing rooms with her, as I was aware that the premise of "just use the disabled loos" will translate to clothes shopping, and she is quite conservative in outlook, while maintaining the personality of a people-pleaser... She was already completely aware, and had formed her own opinions. She is housebound, and rarely uses the internet. So the word is out there.

In a difficult market you wouldn't bonkers to piss off any customers, but particularly the ones with most spare cash, responsible for the family budget. Yes they will gain from others but which group is bigger and spends more?

I knew about the changing rooms policy, I knew that they weren't replying to any women who protested or asked them about it, and I knew about the "It'll upset the men" statement/incident, so decided no more M&S in our life.

All the food came from Waitrose (it was great), and I'll never shop in M&S, for anything, ever again.

I too spent my money elsewhere when I would usually have just done a 'one fell swoop' shop in M&S. So did a few of my friends and family, and if I was to guess at the amount we didn't spend with them it would be up around the £4 to £5k mark all together for December.
Anecdotal I know, and probably a drop in the ocean compared to what gets spent in M&S on any give day, but a loss to them still.

In the run up to Xmas we needed about £140 worth of stuff that I could have bought from JL.

Not mega bucks I know, but I bought the same or similar items from other shops (with ethical policies) and paid a little bit more if necessary, so it not just that everyone spent less overall, there will be many like me who spent money elsewhere. It all adds up.

I’ve stopped shopping there as well. I’m sure the impact of people like me is minimal. I’m equally sure that they really can’t afford to be losing any customers right now.

I haven't shopped at either since I became aware of the changing room policy. Haven't missed it really and have bought stuff from local independents, of far better quality and usually cheaper.
It was a habit, I've broke it, won't return unless policies change.

I stopped shopping at M&S because of their constant errors with my online orders. Nothing to do with same sex changing rooms. I never go in there so wouldn't know about them.

I think they are overpriced and not as good quality anymore. That's why I now shop at Next! I have even visited a store! Better quality and cheaper. Not so frumpy either.

They received zero custom from me or my household either. And will not get a single penny from me again.

Once you have lost loyalty, it takes 100 times more effort to regain it than it took to lose it.

And as a 'customer' I tend to do all my shopping in one 'hit' as it were, so whomever gets me for the 2020 clothes shop will get basically my years clothes budget in one glorious day of spending.

With regard to plus sizes and such, I think that may be related to people using more online shopping. It seems that specialty lines are the first to go when they cut costs, I've seen the same complaint about petite sizing. And I've also seen people who want special sizing recommend shopping online specifically because there are more options than brick and mortar shops can really give.

It's really become a problem, as more people shop online, local options shrink, driving more to online shopping. I've actually seen people complain that local shops close so they can't try on items that they then go to order online!