M&S + John Lewis - your poor Christmas sales will be due to the contempt you've shown your female customers

Snow. You're on a forum filled with m&s' target demographic! Funnily enough we've spent money on the shop. And yes, i would have spent about a hundred quid in there at Xmas. That's not a lot, really, in the grand scheme of things. I'm in my mid 30s, above average household income. That's the sort of money we spend. There's people here whose household income is ten times mine, so yeah, they probably do spend ten times what I do.

You are really clutching at straws here.

Why would posters that don’t use M&S, comment on here, since they’re obviously not the demographic that the store relies on. You’re just getting desperate now, aren’t you. Why’s that?

I'm sorry, I've tried to ignore this stuff but I find these threads so spiteful. Hoping companies (that employ a disproportionate number of young and working class women) go bust and rubbing your hands together with glee really rubs me the wrong way.

All UK high street stores allow 'transgender' people to self ID into the changing rooms btw. Do you think any of them want to deal with the shit if someone was refused? Lidl, Morrison's, TKMaxx, Asda,Tesco and Sainsbury's all allow self ID in their toilets and changing facilities where I've lived too shrug

I've also worked for a number of the companies you have 'defected' to and a lot of them treat their staff like complete crap (getting pay docked for taking too many loo breaks on my period was my fave! Thnx Asda and Tesco!) but hey, who gives a shit about retail workers?

One good thing to come out of this unisex changing rooms nonsense, is the the fact that I’ve starting looking around my local area and using the independent shops. Like a previous poster, I now order vegetable boxes and I also find the clothes in the wee shops much more interesting, although more expensive. I try to support females in independent businesses as much as possible.

boatyardblues agreed, they are telling us they don't care what we think, and we're responding by not going somewhere we're not wanted. We're not picketing their stores or intimidating their staff we're just making a choice about how and where to spend our money

I've not managed to completely stop shopping at M&S yet but definitely significantly down as I can't face the changing rooms, and I've spent a lot less on food. I've only bought two vest like tops there since this thread started and I'd normally have done a replenish of my DCs clothes by now mostly from M&S & JL (we're not at the forefront of fashion )

I know many men don't think middle aged mums matter but some earn substantial amounts of money and it tends to be a time when the mortgage is paid off so that's a lot of disposable income. We also do most of the shopping particularly at Christmas, and I bought no presents this year from M&S and only one from JL. Food gifts were from small local providers.

Individually we don't matter but collectively we do. And for a company like M&S collectively over time this will make a difference to their sales at a time when sales will be down anyway.

I agree some of us end up here after unpleasant encounters with transwomen as that is often when we start noticing that what we initially thought was an isolated incident may not be. Trans activists on twitter thoughtfully sent me here - that wasn't their intent obviously but thanks anyway

Before anyone starts bleating about horrid feminists running M&S into the ground, let’s remember that this is a self-inflicted wound by M&S’ management. It is perfectly possible to cater for everyone’s needs without disenfranchising, endangering and pissing off one of your key customer demographics.

I’ve also been boycotting and have mentioned to my dm who spends quite a bit there esp at Christmas. A friend who buys an easy tea there once a week is also boycotting.
We are talking relatively small sums of money being lost here but the more people who boycott, and tell their friends and family the wider the ripples spread and the more money they lose. It all adds up

I couldn’t care less about the changing rooms. The clothes are just crap. I want to dress like the clothes at Toast but they’re out of my budget.

A brief word, not a derail I promise...since avoiding Ocado and going more plastic free I have been buying from local businesses and I get a lot more from sopping this way. I'm building relationships with locals, just like the old days when you went to the butcher, baker etc.

If the big retailers don't miss my money then good for them, I'm sure they will be making up the shortfall from the woke folk. Those Percy pigs must be flying off the shelves (pigs...flying...see what I did there?)

I normally spend about £800 over Christmas with M & S but didn't spend anything with them this year. I also had a chat with my mum about my reasons for boycotting, she does all of her food shopping there. I don't know if I've affected that, I'll ask her next time I see her but she was pretty appalled at their stance.

Yes. I did no Christmas shopping there either, I normally spend a lot in both Marks and JL.

We boycott M&S, Ocado and John Lewis. I miss John Lewis the most, I used to be a regular customer for haberdashery, white goods, computer stuff and kitchen equipment.

Snowblight you're needed on the blood donation thread - as of yet there's no jeering of women who want to keep a distinction between sex and gender.
That'd be a good topic for you eh?

All clothes shops in the UK allow trans women to use the female changing rooms.

The nice independent from which I now buy my underwear doesn't. Which is why M&S can continue to kiss my arse.

Well, I was brought up to give elderly people an extra level of consideration and courtesy, but the woke youth seem to think that the older someone is the less they matter.

I have kept up my boycott of M&S and JL and they’ve probably lost in the region of £1000-£1200 from our household so far, given how much we spend this time of year on Christmas food (which I have always had from M&S), plus our regular clothing spending and the twice-weekly cafe visits. It would take something quite radical for them to win back my custom at this point. PP up thread who mentioned the age-old marketing advice about it being many times cheaper to retain existing customers than it is to attract new ones is spot on.

Although I think that the boycotts will undoubtedly be having an impact on these businesses, and they are absolutely worthwhile, I think it’s unrealistic to attribute the poor Christmas sales to this issue. There are so many, far bigger, factors at play. Brexit for a start, and the general election being held in December. Black Friday, which has completely changed consumer behaviour in the run up to Christmas and has massively affected profits. Strained family finances due to stagnating wages over the last 12 years. Increased environmental awareness and motivation to reduce impact (I bought more second hand toys this year and encouraged my parents to do the same for DC - e.g. I convinced DM to buy a second hand toy kitchen for DS rather than the £100+ she had planned to spend on a brand new one). It’s a bit of a perfect storm at the moment. All the more reason for M&S and the like to be taking extra care of its loyal core customer base.

I spoke to the staff in my local M&S about this policy and they wasn’t really aware of it. However they did tell me they have regular issues when a certain trans customer uses the ladies loo. Apparently the elderly ladies that are also in the loo always complain to staff about the “man” (their words not mine, monitors) in the toilet.
Are these elderly ladies nasty bigoted MNers, or just upset about having their privacy and dignity taken away by someone who is clearly male?

I think the shift to farm shops etc is good in general, honestly. Those are the kinds of businesses that if they're lost you'll really miss them when you need them, so if the foolish policies enacted by large companies end up benefitting them then that's a positive thing all around. Ditto local clothing shops, etc. The high streets are dying, and I'm more interested in preserving the small independent shops than the ones that will maintain a web presence anyway.

And indeed, living in the kind of woke area in which one does encounter transwomen in toilets, changing rooms etc on a regular basis may not be unrelated to the attitudes of women. Just not in the way some were hoping.

In previous years I’ve bought enough M&S clothing to qualify for the discounted M&S beauty advent calendar. I didn’t buy one this year. I went to a Sainsburys store to buy Christmas gifts for colleagues (our food is online deliveries all year round) instead of M&S. Whilst I was in store I had a look at the ladies knickers and bought a pack - normally I buy my knickers in M&S. I ordered our turkey crown from a local independent butcher this year and it was really good. It’s not a huge amount of expenditure but, as others have said, now I know there are viable alternatives I’m not sure I’ll go back.

It's a real struggle, WonderTree, isn't it?

@snowblight if there is a larger percentage of women who have encountered trans-identifying males in female spaces on the feminism boards than you believe there to be amongst the general population (although I’m not sure how you are measuring this), has it occurred to you that this could be because women who have experienced it are driven to research and discuss the surrounding issues online, having had it foisted upon them in reality?

Hmm, so far we have six pages of people saying that they have boycotted these companies and spent their money elsewhere (and will continue to do so). Plus they've spread the word amongst their friends. And that's just the people who happen to have logged onto Mumsnet today and seen the thread title and bothered to post.

Interspersed with one person repeatedly posting to say that this will have no impact, and also that everyone else is obviously just lying to make an impression (on an anonymous forum).

Gosh, I'm so confused. Who to believe??