M&S + John Lewis - your poor Christmas sales will be due to the contempt you've shown your female customers

It's one of the weirdest marketing decisions no matter what your personal feelings as a marketeer

Did nobody in M & S management ask "Do our women customers want men in their changing rooms? How will they feel having their bra fittings with a man in the next door changing room?" Or even, "What's the evidence that women want mixed sex changing rooms?"

Either they are totally out of touch or they are so completely frightened of the woke bullies that none of them dared ask. Or of course they just said - "Fuck women. They'll do as we say"

It's one of the weirdest marketing decisions no matter what your personal feelings as a marketeer.

To me, this suggests that there’s just disdain for middle-aged, middle-class women from M and S. As though this group of women are so bland and homogenous that they’re unlikely to think about issues like feminism and sex-based rights but just robotically shop in M and S as always. It’s not even like they’ve just been dismissive of their core demographic, it’s almost like we just don’t exist. There’s an inherent misogyny at the core of the decision.

It's the lingerie reviews on the website that send out the most unpleasant corporate message, imo.

If they simply scrapped the completely unnecessary 'gender' marker against a person's name then they could pretty much eradicate the problem in an instant.

But they haven't, despite this being pointed out, which speaks volumes. They clearly see men buying women's underwear for themselves as a significant market.

Johnsons ( my local one anyway) has a sign that says they dryclean interview outfits for unemployed people for free.

Yo I bust him in the eye, and then I'll take the punk's hoe

If your girl steps up, I'm smacking the hoe.

I still can't get over this.

If they knew, then it's unbelievably snide, or worse, contemptuous.

And if they didn't ... well why didn't they???

Christmas adverts are huge. How many people signed off?

Ugh.

Thanks I had no idea about Timpsons.

Sorry to drop and run about Timpsons! (They also own Johnson Dry Cleaners by the way). They mend phones and tablets too. And watches. Prison education, recruit ex-offenders (both women and men), and treat their staff really well - own holiday homes staff can stay in for free, big profit share paid weekly, day off on your birthday, maternity bonuses.

Here's the chief exec's Twitter, which is lovely.

twitter.com/JamesTCobbler

I see Snowblight has decamped to other threads now. I wonder why?!

I love Timpsons! Such a useful little shop- shoe repairs, key cutting, dry cleaning, passport photos... Ours has very friendly staff as well.

I've also stopped shopping at those stores on principle.

I'd normally go into M&S for my Christmas food (as well as some usualy weekly shopping) but I didn't this year for the changing rooms issue.

I also used to buy clothes there (such as non leather footwear) but I've stopped going.

It wasn't a flash in the pan decision while the furore around changing rooms played out, I'll maintain this stance so long as they allow men to change next to women and children and while they allow numerous male fetishists to review (returnable) knickers online.

@snowblight a trans woman works in the women's clothing section inmy local M&S, haven't experienced 'her' presence in women's changing rooms as haven't shopped since their silly policy

The problem is that the young woke crowd they're catering to (you know, the ones who refuse to believe in sexism or sex-based violence) are also for the most part the ones who would never be seen dead in M&S clothes, and can't afford to do the weekly food shop there.

It's one of the weirdest marketing decisions no matter what your personal feelings as a marketeer.

When Sainsbury’s wanted £2.5 billion in extra revenue, their ad agency worked out that it would be much easier to do it by getting existing customers to spend an extra £1.14 each than by bringing in new customers. Hence the Jamie Oliver Try Something New Today campaign

M&S and JL may be finding that it works in reverse too
I never knew this, so for m and s to recover the lost monies from just us here on MN will take the remaining customers to spend more.
After the Christmas jumper advert they must be scratching heads to find a way to make that happen. Or invest in more new customers who hopefully will Google and find the threads.

I've kept up the boycott of both. Had been boycotting m&s for a year, but added john Lewis before Christmas. I spent £300 on cushions for a bench seat from a local shop. Would have automatically bought from John Lewis before.

PP up thread who mentioned the age-old marketing advice about it being many times cheaper to retain existing customers than it is to attract new ones is spot on.

When Sainsbury’s wanted £2.5 billion in extra revenue, their ad agency worked out that it would be much easier to do it by getting existing customers to spend an extra £1.14 each than by bringing in new customers. Hence the Jamie Oliver Try Something New Today campaign.

M&S and JL may be finding that it works in reverse too.

Boots do good tights.

Didn’t buy anything over Christmas, but am twitching now as I need new tights! Can anyone recommend an alternative shop?

If M&S go bust it is not the fault of their female former customers. The blame sits at the feet of the managers who have showed clear contempt for their core customer base by bringing in unisex changing rooms on the sly.

I can't imagine why anyone buys meat at M&S. Overpriced and overpackaged.

Try a local butcher; their sausages are usually amazing, and their food miles very low. I asked mine what went into them and he went out the back to fetch the tray with the pre-minced mix to show me. I'd never eat a supermarket sausage again. In fact, I bought an electric mincer for a tenner in a charity shop and now mince my own beef for burgers, meat loaf etc. Bulk preparation and a slow cooker can provide easy ready meals for the freezer, without all the sugar and preservatives crap too.

M&S clothing hasn't been hard to boycott - I can't be arsed navigating through the acres of rails anyway.

Yeah I'm another former M&S user. This has been a harder change for me: I'm autistic, I like going to the same places and using the same brands, and I found their shops manageable. I vaguely "knew" the cashiers (you know, where you recognise the same people).

I doubt that my change on it's own will affect anything, but it's difficult to happily shop at a place which has explocitly told women it won't protect them.

I live in a large city @snowblight, transwomen are pretty common here and unfortunately this one was making me very uncomfortable whilst looking at underwear. It's a shame you don't believe me.

Not in the UK but my family lives there and used to swear by Waitrose, John Lewis and M&S. Have noticed that they made the switch to veg boxes, back to the butcher, the fishmonger, the baker. Reasons cited: too much packaging, more food than we need, could not find what I needed. I used to get so exasperated with them every time I saw that 3 for 2 sticker (who needs that much ham??) Very much along the same lines of what I am doing/experiencing at my end. I would also add that M&S quality has gone down in recent years, which made me look for better quality undies which I now buy on sale because more expensive.
Re changing rooms: we have non-binary sales assistants at Zara, &Other Stories, etc. where I live. They also work the changing rooms. But the changing rooms are still very much women only which explains the cluster of men sitting on the staircase to the men’s department as they wait for their wives/gfs.
At the UK end, my family also seems to be well aware of the change in store policy, which I gather has led to mail ordering of clothes from certain retailers.

On a last note, I don’t know if you have bulk shops as they’re called here. You bring your own packaging, bags, weigh everything yourself and only buy what you need. They work with local and other farmers (citrus from an Italian cooperative). We now spend so much less on food every week and the fridge is almost empty by Saturday when I do my weekly shop.

Let them go bust. I'll take my bust elsewhere.

Best comment I’ve read haha.

I’ve stopped shopping at M&S.

Was useful for Christmas presents for my UK family but I’ve found an awesome e-commerce website that hosts independent sellers, listing lots of recycled and up-cycled gifts. It’s just as handy as M&S was (so I can still buy and ship within the UK for a better carbon footprint), but it’s so much more interesting, I’ll never go back to M&S.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etsy

(No, I’m not a seller, or owner so this isn’t a stealth advert )

I’ve also stopped top-up clothes shopping there when I’ve been in the UK

£3k per annum from me gone elsewhere

That cake is glorious looking.

Timpsons are great. Cheapest and best place for getting ordinary shoes fitted with suede soles for dance.