Keir Starmer - GRA

Very few I think. Lewis Moonie. David T Davies. Pitiful numbers.

Clive Lewis on Newsnight just said that the problem with the Labour party is that both wings of the party (blairite and corbynite) have been guilty of top down policy making rather than grassroots policy making.

Best comment I've seen so far in the contest.

The problems with this ideology are so clear to me now because I’ve done so much work and read so many fascinating women’s thoughts on this.

Yup. I've been heavily reading up on this since late 2017 - I'm sadly very well-versed with the issues.

When this first started coming up on my radar was around 2013 - from posts on the FWR board here - my first thought was "I don't care about that, live and let live."

Until it gradually dawned on me what was happening to women, children, lesbians, women's rights - things like Spartacus threads here, Caitlyn Jenner winning Woman of the Year, the vandalising of the feminist bookshop in Canada, Lily Madigan taking Women's Officer role, the assault on Maria M... all of this and so much more - it's been a drip-drip-drip effect. Not to sound bigheaded, but I wonder if there are any politicians as well-read on the subject as the FWR regulars here.

There is about as much chance of a Labour leadership contender turning up for an MN webchat and being held to account on women's rights as there is of my tits unsagging.

Actually I’m regretting suggesting that.

Something about the format seems to result in disappointing responses every time whereas a one to one with an engaged thinker such as KS might get somewhere.

Is it because we are all a long way up the curve on this issue? We have mainly been where they (interested bystanders and politicians who haven’t spent much time with the issues). But most us us have been prompted by some news story or another to look into it deeply and have subsequently spent many many hours reading and trying to understand. The problems with this ideology are so clear to me now because I’ve done so much work and read so many fascinating women’s thoughts on this. Yet I know that for many people they just don’t see it because they haven’t spent the time.

If we each had an hour one to one with a key opinion former we could probably turn the tide because once you’ve seen it you can’t unsee it. But we are not getting that time - Stonewall are.

Anyway I wonder if MNHQ should consider a different format for these chats. So we don’t feel cheated and they don’t feel ambushed.

MNHQ I don't suppose you'd consider inviting him in for a webchat? I know you don't like them being completely overrun with questions about any potential GRA reform, but there are still a lot of us on here that are Labour members.

Not only would it be good to find out where Keir Starmer sits on women's rights and issues generally (so not just GRA reform) but also, actually, as a likely potential future party leader. I think it's important to find out whether he (or other likely candidates) have done any reflection on the reasons why Labour were hammered in the election and whether they are actually planning to change anything.

Thank you! all round...

Webchat perhaps ? Although that seems to be the kiss of death for any critical thinking skills the candidate might have had previously. I cannot think of a single politician who has managed an MN webchat successfully, made any sensible remarks on this subject or finished with their reputation enhanced.

So Kier Starmer apparently doesnt care about women’s rights as the opposite side to the coin he talks about on the video here.
Where he is saying trans people have had awful abuse and discrimination and been used as a political football.

While that may be true in individual cases (for which we would all call for better support for those affected and for redress for them), I really do hope Starmer doesn’t include women’s objections to losing out on our spaces, opportunities, reasonable expectations of personal safety, privacy and dignity, our right to name ourselves as women, our right to meet to talk about women’s rights without being abused or harrassed, our right not to be punched to the ground or sacked for not believing that humans can change sex.. I really hope Starmer is not referring to women’s objections as examples of this awful abuse or discrimination?

Because if he was, that would be highly misogynistic, authoritarian and anti-democratic. So... surely not?

I’m sure he’ll be clearing all this up soon by speaking about this topic again in the near future though in a much more informed and reasoned way..

I imagine whoever Corbyn endorses will get in. If he ever gives a straight answer to who he endorses

Looking back to the selection of Ed Milliband (and I liked and voted for Ed) - but I seem to remember it being quite a shock that David didn't get in. That all seems a long, long time ago now! He was said to be the socialist/ trade unionist's favourite iirc.

Then Corbyn - taking the party into an even more socialist direction. Since then, despite many in Labour trying to oust Corbyn - they just couldn't shift him (still can't! Even now he's still there!)

On that ^ (very layman!) analysis I would say Keir Starmer will be a popular frontrunner, but no chance of actually winning, because he's not socialist enough?

RedToothBrush
I don't want to derail but your comment about the southern middle class woke is just a bit off tbh.
Now if it were to say southern middle class woke blokes I could agree.

Where are we with Lisa Nandy and her position on this?

TWAW.

Where are we with Lisa Nandy and her position on this?

Or is she keeping her mouth shut on the subject to avoid upsetting the southern middle class woke?

Everything Lang said.

Dead duck, sadly.

Until a leadership candidate has the guts to speak truth to the membership, Labour will remain in the electoral wilderness. If he doesn't really believe it but says it anyway - he's no leader.

He's a human rights lawyer who doesn't understand the conflict of interests between the rights of women and trans people.

Thats a bit of a gap in knowledge in his chosen specialist area...

I admit I'm surprised at how little I care.

I don't care either. The party, in its current state, is beyond help.

It's lost Scotland. It's lost the Red Wall. Women are decamping in their droves and are the next stage of their demise - and even after an election defeat that conclusively proved all this, they still aren't listening.

I've decamped. I'm past asking for compromise or even acknowledgement. I shall ignore them until they come to their senses and come to women with an offer worth having, not the scraps from the table. They need me. Frankly, I have no use for them whatsoever.

They're pragmatists and they'll work with whoever has the power.

Ha - you betcha. And yet they can be so quick to call left wing women, the trade unionists of WPUK, etc, "right wing bigots"

Sorry I'm derailing the thread aren't I? Back to Keir Starmer

I don't remember which committee Moran was on but yes, I'm sure the lobbyist will be all over them. There is no way they're going to wait (in all likelihood) 10 years for the chance of a more sympathetic government. They're pragmatists and they'll work with whoever has the power.

True - it's the parliamentary committees we need to watch. Layla Moran was sitting on one - was that when she said she could see souls?

Cummings might not be but I still don't think we should underestimate the reach of the trans lobby.

I'm up North and stuck for who to vote for, joining just to vote.
There's a lot round here joining to vote for Lisa Nandy, Jess Phillips, or RL Bailey are all popular. They are all local to me, Lisa is amazing.

I don't think Dom Cummings is into identity politics or lgbtq rights.

He would be, if it was a vote winner - but it's not. Dom Cummings is only interested in winning.

Not a single Labour MP has come out as gender critical, because they would immediately be reported for transphobia, and deselected/ expelled from the party/ harassed/ have hate mobs visit their house/have the police called on them etc etc.

I am struggling to think of a single Labour MP, let alone a prospective party leader, who has the bottle to speak up for women. I admit I'm surprised at how little I care.

In any case I think it's the government we should be watching - I have no doubt they're being lobbied as we speak.

He didn't actually say anything.

"vulnerable group" "small group" (well it certainly used to be when the GRA was passed - but is it now? Stonewall trans umbrella...) "can't be made into a political football" "current govt have shelved it".

We are no more the wiser on what he would actually do from that clip - or did I miss something?

However, Keir seemed pretty au fait with women's vulnerability to rape & dv when he was at the CPS - I hope he doesn't forget that women exist and have rights too?

He was an illiberal DPP so I'm not keen for that reason alone.