Scottish GRA consultation

Good news, for now.

morningtoncrescent62 I'm in a similar position as I haven't been keeping track of the stuff around the census. I was focused on getting through the consultation.

@NonnyMouse1337 I agree. I haven't paid as much attention to the census as I should while the consultation was on. I've lost track what's being decided and when - do you know? Or have a link to the info?

We also need to keep an eye on the census.

That’s great if the proposed reforms are on hold (least you’d expect). But, I also think all government consultations should be either paused until after this is over and then restarted, or left open indefinitely until the crisis passes. I don’t think this consultation should be considered complete if it has been closed, given that many potential respondents will have been occupied elsewhere.

There are Scottish elections next spring (2021). The public consultation needs to be analysed, then legislation will be scrutinised by committee (including hearing from witnesses), debated in Parliament and voted on. All of that has to happen by the end of this year if it's going to become law. With the delay to getting the committee stages off the ground it's unlikely it can be completed before the end of this parliamentary term. Hence kicked into touch for the foreseeable. The next thing to keep an eye on will be the party manifestos for the 2021 Scottish elections.

Kicked into the long grass until 2021?

Because of the coronavirus?

So it is rumoured:

www.thenational.scot/news/18321142.gender-recognition-reforms-go-hold-coronavirus/

Yes littlbrowndog, apparently going to be kicked into the long grass.

www.thenational.scot/news/18321142.gender-recognition-reforms-go-hold-coronavirus/

I saw a piece in a paper I can’t rember which it was to say this has been kicked into long grass for time being as our government is busy doing stuff 💪

"Of course, they can't enforce this, since it will be impossible to prove that someone has made a false declaration because they haven't defined what 'living in an acquired gender' actually means."

I forgot it was in the Bill, OldCrone. Still a "a sop" though - for the reason you state. It makes it all sound very serious - but it's just blather. Either they are terminally stupid or they think the electorate is

Shit, I missed this. I feel bad about it.
I think they should have extended the closing date. I would say going back at least for the past two weeks, really it is wrong to have had any kind of open government consultation that is not now remaining open for well beyond the next 3 months from now, because of the COVID situation. I responded to the 2018 one and would have done it again.

I made quite a point in mine about ‘living in the acquired gender’. The more you think about it the more batty it becomes particularly as no physical change at all is required.

This is something that I would be asking my MSPs about if I lived in Scotland. I also wrote quite a bit about this in my response.

This is what MurrayBlackburnMackenzie said about this:

3. Lack of key definitions: The draft Bill does not define ‘acquired gender’, aside from a circular reference to the ‘gender in which a person is living’. The removal of all gatekeeping means that GRC applications will rest wholly on a person’s self-declared commitment to a concept that has no clear definition in law.

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2020/03/16/our-response-to-the-scottish-gra-reform-consultation/

MSPs who support the reform should also be interested in there being a clear, unambiguous and objective definition of what 'living in an acquired gender' means if they have an interest in the law having clarity and being fit for purpose. Why would anyone not want to have this term properly defined in the legislation? (Yes, I do know the answer to that)

If this term is undefined, how will they enforce the law about false declarations?

There is a quote from The West Wing which keeps coming to mind
Amy tells Josh “The women’s vote isn’t just half your constituency, it’s the entire margin of victory”

Yes, the consultation is only the first stage.
The Bill will need to be passed by the Scottish Parliament, so we have to get in touch with all of our MSPs and get them to vote No if they agree that this Bill will threaten women's rights. A vote to Abstain won't help. It has to be No.

The SNP leadership think they can push this through and wrap it all up before elections and we women will meekly carry on. MSPs of all parties have to understand that they will lose women's votes and our support and we will hold them accountable for the erosion of women's rights. There is no way the current Bill can be said to not be in conflict with women's rights in the Equality Act.

Important though the consultation is, the decisive factor will be putting pressure on MSPs over the next period and making it clear that if they oppose women's rights they will not only not get our votes, they will also face a determined, loud and aggressive campaign against them.

Just got mine in on time last night.
Thanks for that detailed report on the 2018 consultation, Charlie. I respnded to that one too, and I was puzzled yesterday while doing the new one because they seemed to be asking similar questions again. It didn’t seem they had taken any notice of the information women gave them last time. if they think there’s no evidence of harm, they’re deliberately ignorong it.

LizziesTwin

Just done it very quickly, but at least one more response.
If anyone else is still up it doesn't (have to) take too long, answers can be short and you don't have to be in Scotland to complete.

Still time for this

(By allow she meant 'rush through the process, without any checks or balances', obviously).

Haven't read through this thread.. but I've badgered a friend enough to respond to it and she said - isn't this whole consultation invalid though, it's asking questions about gender, but the whole point of the Bill is to allow people to change the 'sex' on their legal documents? Aren't those 2 things entirely different?

Exactly- I had a wee rant about how the only things different for me & my husband are biological.
Actually now I think about it I haven’t worn a skirt or dress in about 20yrs & he wears his kilt at least once a year....

I made quite a point in mine about ‘living in the acquired gender’. The more you think about it the more batty it becomes particularly as no physical change at all is required. Men and women wear jeans, T shirts, hoodies, boots. Both have long and short hair and both work and care for children? Many names are unisex. So what is the difference between Alex, a man who wears jeans and T shirts and hoodies and Alex, transwoman, who wears jeans, T shirts and hoodies and is living ‘as a woman’. Will the Scottish Government be issuing lists of male and female clothing? Approved male and female names and haircuts? I suspect that the potential for mockery is why they didn’t define it. Bonkers.

I have my doubts that they have any intention of introducing "a new criminal penalty . . . for making a false declaration". I think it is just a sop to allay concerns.

It's in the draft bill:

14 Offences
After section 22 of the 2004 Act insert—
“22A Offence of making false declaration or application (Scotland)
(1) A person commits an offence if the person knowingly makes a statutory declaration in accordance with this Act or regulations made under it which is false in a material particular.
(2) A person commits an offence if the person knowingly includes any other information which is false in a material particular in—
(a) an application under—
(i) section 8A(1) for a gender recognition certificate,
(ii) section 8F(1), 8J(1) or 8K(1) for a full gender recognition certificate, or
(iii) section 8O(1) for a confirmatory gender recognition certificate, or
(b) a notice of confirmation under section 8B(3).
(3) A person who commits an offence under subsection (1) or (2) is liable—
(a) on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both),
(b) on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or a fine (or both).”.

Of course, they can't enforce this, since it will be impossible to prove that someone has made a false declaration because they haven't defined what 'living in an acquired gender' actually means.

Finally got mine in! Would have been a lot quicker if I didn't end up writing a flipping essay for each question (though using a lot of info from the various sets of guidance - tried not to copy/paste though but rephrase in my own words/pick out key concerns), which kept me up late last night and busy for much of today, but at least it's done now!