Dr Jessica Taylor on men wanting a "strong independent woman".

None of my boyfriends or husbands ever enjoyed me being a strong independent woman. What they actually wanted was a maid and sex worker who never says no. My strength and independence drove them all away.
I can't be bothered with men any more.

Antibles

Yes, there are men like that for sure. I also think there are similar women, they say they want one type of man, but really when it comes down to it, they don't. There are men who say they would like a soft, safe sort of woman, but then despise her for it. Same for women too.

But the sweeping sense that this is the norm somehow is what's weird. People have all kinds of personality issues in relationships.

I'm totally with the sentiment of the article, it's only the tone that's a bit OTT to me.

I do think some men pay lip service to the idea of a strong woman but when theory turns to practice, they have an issue with it after all. It's all fine until you disagree with them or your goals come into conflict with their goals, or you look more intelligent than them. Then they don't find it half so attractive. That's when the silent treatment and other passive aggressive crap starts, to subtly get back at you and assert dominance so as to preserve their own self-esteem.

You don't know who she was addressing but you know it wasn't men even though the title of the piece is "Dear Men..." and men are responding to the article as though they know they are the ones being addressed
But you are totes not accusing the writer of lying? Amazing!

Oh come off it. I don't believe the target audience is men. It's a rant intended to have a certain type of feminist nodding along in agreement about how stunning, clever and insightful it is.

Call that lying if you want-I don't care. The article is still a poorly constructed set of caricatures set up so she can shoot them down.

"It's not clear to me who the writer's target audience was. It wasn't really men."

You don't know who she was addressing but you know it wasn't men even though the title of the piece is "Dear Men..." and men are responding to the article as though they know they are the ones being addressed.
But you are totes not accusing the writer of lying? Amazing!

Lying is weird word to use, she's not talking about a real person.

But her portrait of a strong independent woman doesn't ring particularly true IMO.

We are only on the second page and the Dr Taylor is already being accused of lying

Who is accusing her of lying?

I thought it was a not particularly well written article full of set piece caricatures of stereotypes of people and personalities and sweeping generalisations to try to prove her point.

my "drag it out and dump it in a pile method" infuriates him. I might have deliberately been worse than I need be at this task as I hate doing it.

Omg my ex does this. Used to drive me mad. 😂 Think I might have 'corrected' it a number of times.
My current partner is not as bad, but still a bit ... haphazard ... But he hangs up his stuff to dry in his room, so as not to offend my delicate sensibilities.

We are only on the second page and the Dr Taylor is already being accused of lying.

Some women aren't nice to know? Seriously?!

Yeah, it's as likely as men who aren't nice to know. She's basically described someone self-centered who has no real interest in being in a relationship.

Though FWIW I think her portrait is a pretty fictionalised one, and has little to do with being strong or independent.

Is it still uncommon for women and men these days to do their own laundry in relationships? I've had two partners I've lived with and I've never done the laundry for either. I might occasionally hang up his washing if he forgets and vice versa

I've never done my husband's laundry in over 30 years. He will hang mine up if it's to be dried inside on a clothes horse because my "drag it out and dump it in a pile method" infuriates him. I might have deliberately been worse than I need be at this task as I hate doing it.

I do loads of things on my own (concerts, theatres, travel).

It's not clear to me who the writer's target audience was. It wasn't really men.

It was meant to be a rant so I read it as such. Nothing in it seemed particularly revelatory to me.

Is it still uncommon for women and men these days to do their own laundry in relationships? I've had two partners I've lived with and I've never done the laundry for either. I might occasionally hang up his washing if he forgets and vice versa.

My partner and I have our own separate bedrooms and bathrooms. And it's our own responsibility to keep our rooms clean.

Some people think we are weird, others are trying to hint to their own partners to do the same based on our example.
Ideally I'd rather we live in separate properties but close by, however, for now cohabiting makes pragmatic and economic sense. When I buy a house, it will be in my name only.

I do quite a few things with my partner, but I also still go dancing by myself (i.e without any company, not even friends) or to the theatre, gigs, restaurants.
I really love my own company and solitude and independence; and I enjoy being absorbed in my own interests. I don't see why such an inclination makes a person not nice.

I think it bizarre to criticize a woman's opinion piece for containing the woman's opinion

Why? She was putting out what she thought was an opinion which deserved being listened to. She takes the risk some readers won't agree.

I suppose she'd prefer the men should all just go back to wanting weak, needy women?

I don't really know who she thinks she's writing to, but it sounds like the women she's writing about aren't particularly nice people to know, anyway.

I think it bizarre to criticize a woman's opinion piece for containing the woman's opinion.

I found the article a bit cringe inducing tbh. I feel like she has a set vision of an independent woman, if that makes any sense?

I agree. I thought it was largely a set of sweeping generalisations.

I feel like she has a set vision of an independent woman, if that makes any sense?

It does to me. I believe that the worst parts of modern political and activist division stem from people assuming that, given a reasonable baseline of intelligence, personal confidence and experience, an individual could only reach one conclusion. It's poisonous because those that hold that assumption are then forced into the conclusion that people who don't share their beliefs are either deliberately working against their cause; are too foolish to understand or view themselves as morally and/or intellectually superior.

No, Creepster, but I’m wondering if anyone else felt as I did.

She can't very well share someone else's vision of an independent woman, now can she?

I found the article a bit cringe inducing tbh. I feel like she has a set vision of an independent woman, if that makes any sense?

She will be the ‘mouthy, outspoken’ young woman arguing about politics online, out-classing everyone who tries to belittle and humiliate her.
This was a perfect description of how I and every other woman who posted under a female name or avatar has always been treated by men on the political blogs.

in one or the comments 'However, clearly you seem to think of yourself as an independent woman and I invite you to come to Johannesburg, South Africa and engage me in a dialogue, independent woman to mature man. Or does that scare you?'

that's not creepy at all...

I like the general gist of it, but there are a few phrases that I’m not sure about.

Me too. I rolled my eyes a bit at She will be the ‘mouthy, outspoken’ young woman arguing about politics online, out-classing everyone who tries to belittle and humiliate her.

The above sounded a bit like an insight into how the above 'mouthy' woman might view herself, but it just conjured images of those try and shout down others - "You don't want to share your changing rooms? Bigot!"