Setting up book club / discussion group re. Radical Feminism

I went to a feminist discussion group once - it was completely derailed by a transwoman. As i left i wondered what the point of it was as we hadn't discussed anything besides the film Wonder Woman

This was very libfem though.

It's a shame we are having to use the law to defend the idea of having a women's book club!

Yes. But at the same time, it's reassuring to know that. Thank you.

Yes eBooks, at last, you finally said it.

And in this case some of your feminists may be self-selecting women or men who are (or think they are) feminists.

Also, not sure posters aren’t making assumptions but I thought OP wanted to be in charge of the book choice, not to police the attendees?

Have you thought about setting up a group on meetup.com? I've been in book clubs before and sometimes a library is not the best place anyway. The opening hours can be quite limited and there can be less chance for socialising before and after the official book club part. A not-too-noisy place like a bar can be good. You could have a fixed venue or rotate around a few.

I've been consulting with the legal brain of the house about this: we did some research and found some useful bits. Assuming you would have less than 25 members you would be exempt from the rules governing associations:

"A book club run by a group of friends which has no formal rules governing admittance or whose membership is less than 25 is not an association for the purposes of this Part."
Explanatory Notes of Primary Legislation/UK Acts/2010/EQUALITY ACT 2010/PART 7:
ASSOCIATIONS/Examples

Also the Equality Act allows for single characteristic clubs:

Single characteristic associations

(1) An association does not contravene section 101(1) by restricting membership to persons who share a protected characteristic.

(2) An association that restricts membership to persons who share a protected characteristic does not breach section 101(3) by restricting the access by associates to a benefit, facility or service to such persons as share the characteristic.
SCHEDULE 16 Associations: Exceptions
Section 107

It's a shame we are having to use the law to defend the idea of having a women's book club!

Well that sounds great in theory

As long as you’re aware you have no idea of the views of anyone attending

I’d so love to join a rad fem group now but it would have to be private for me to feel safe.

Okay, ebooks, can you point me to these bye laws, please?

I don't think this needs to be a debate really, most public libraries have quite specific policies on groups that meet using their space. Anyone who wants to use the ibrary in that way should be careful to make sure they understand the policy and that it will be in line with what they want to do.

As an example, you could possibly have a group to discuss Christian books, but you probably could not actually exclude non-Christians from the group. On the other hand programs directed to specific need groups are usually ok, especially if their needs are very specific, like children, or English language learners.

You might also be able to get around some of this by paying to use library space as a private group.

Why is it that some males get angry when they are told no?

Breastfeeding support groups, post natal depression groups, too, are exclusionary as they're female only. Why is it so hard to accept that women want spaces where we can be women on our own? It's not the end of the world if everybody isn't admitted to every last space everywhere.

You are using the word Inclusive, but you don’t actually think that feminism should be permitted unless it’s the dick sucking type.

I don't care what you do in your spare time as long as it's legal and consensual.

I know that you think I'm the wrong sort of feminist, but that's absolutely irrelevant to the application of library bye-laws.

You’re wrong you know. You might wish to be right, but you’re completely wrong. Nice try.

Just because you want something to be true, you can't make it so by disagreeing loudly and stamping your foot.

It's just how libraries work. They strive to be inclusive and welcoming to all members of the community.

It may be how you would like libraries to work, but thankfully neither of my local libraries are that bullying and bigoted towards women.

Why is it such an issue for you that a group of women want to meet to talk about women’s issues? Why would anyone who is not a woman be so invested in joining that? Are women not permitted to have ANY male free spaces? That’s a very misogynistic and creepy viewpoint.

It's none of those things. It's just how libraries work. They strive to be inclusive and welcoming to all members of the community. They have bye-laws and guidelines that emphasise this inclusiveness.

Just like we have to follow Mumsnet's guidelines if you want to post here, then you have to follow libraries' rules if you want to use their facilities.

You can have your male-free space elsewhere, who is stopping you? But, your local library is not going to be that space. Libraries are for everybody.

If you want a women's group in a libray then you accept transwomen

You’re wrong you know. You might wish to be right, but you’re completely wrong. Nice try.

Is it just libraries that this applies to or any publically funded building? Those sessions for dads at my local sure start centre - should I report them?

Most groups are self-selecting, and unaccompanied adults are removed from children's areas as the bye-laws allow for this.

I think you’ll find that the law also permits those of the female sex to exclude those of the male sex, or are you not interested in females having rights?

Most groups are self-selecting

Yes eBooks,

at last, you finally said it.

I'm not the person who wants to run an exclusionary group in an inclusive environment... I know what that sounds like to most people.

Why is it such an issue for you that a group of women want to meet to talk about women’s issues? Why would anyone who is not a woman be so invested in joining that? Are women not permitted to have ANY male free spaces? That’s a very misogynistic and creepy viewpoint.

Well that didn’t take long. Went from “you need to be careful you’re not breaking any rules” to “TWAW and you’re a bunch of bigots”, in a shorter time than usual.

I'm not the person who wants to run an exclusionary group in an inclusive environment... I know what that sounds like to most people.

How can my local library host refugee groups, baby singing groups and craft clubs for kids then? Surely they'd have to let in all those who "felt" displaced, child free adults and anyone who fancied doing craft?

All those groups are very welcome. But you have to understand that libraries will not exclude transwomen from a feminist book-group. I suspect they wouldn't exclude men specifically either as there would be no reason to prevent men from wanting to read and discuss feminist texts in a welcoming environment. If you want a women's group in a libray then you accept transwomen. If you want a group that discusses feminist texts in a library then you would have to accept anyone that wanted to join, male or female, man or woman.

Most groups are self-selecting, and unaccompanied adults are removed from children's areas as the bye-laws allow for this.

You can do exactly as you please in your super-sekret exclusionary wimmins group.

Well that didn’t take long. Went from “you need to be careful you’re not breaking any rules” to “TWAW and you’re a bunch of bigots”, in a shorter time than usual.

So ebooks, does that mean any adult can join the parent and toddlers story time group, even if they don’t have child? Even if their presence makes the actual parents uncomfortable?

How can my local library host refugee groups, baby singing groups and craft clubs for kids then? Surely they'd have to let in all those who "felt" displaced, child free adults and anyone who fancied doing craft?

Such a group ought to have a plan for what happens if one or more people show up who have XY chromosomes and bodies to match, but who will tell you they're women, and how they want to join with other women in discussing women's concerns. I suppose you can tell them in conversation "I don't think you're a woman" but I imagine that under the library's rules, you can't stop them attending. In fact, you can't keep the meeting to just women under any circumstances--if men want to join, you have to let them. Is that going to work?