Anyone else have a woke teen?

Oh yes 🙄🙄
After reading Sam Smith interview with his shite about living in fear etc I commented he was a twat to which I was lectured, I tried to say it’s nothing to do with him being they/them but just he’s a twat.
It’s quite tiring, I just say nothing now 😐😐

I am 25 now and with time comes the ability to see nuance! This was something I couldn't see when I was at college and previously.

I went to a Catholic school (though not Catholic myself) and think I became quite "woke" as a rebellion to this. They didn't even teach us about contraception or homosexuality as part of our sex education - luckily, my communication with my Mum as a teen was great and she explained all of this to me. She was horrified when she learned how they skimmed over these elements.

I learned all that I could about gender identity within the last five years or so. On the face of it, I couldn't initially see that there was any issue with TWAW. I thought that everyone should live the life that they want to, without question. I still believe that trans people are entitled to this right. However, nuance is important. As society becomes more progressive with these ideologies, people still need to feel safe. I can't see that there are any solutions forthcoming that solve the debate around toilets, changing rooms etc.

My own personal views on TWAW have evolved to be that when it comes to the experience of a cisgender woman, a trans woman cannot understand what it is like. They don't experience periods or menopause or the feeling of constantly being concerned about safety - such as making plans to get home, or walking home late at night clutching your key in between your fingers so you spend as little time on the doorstep as possible.

I feel that other people my age may come to this conclusion in their own time, but only with reasoned conversation. Unfortunately all too often, accusations of bigotry are thrown around because they aren't ready to hear another perspective. Isn't it important to not live in an echo chamber and hear other points of view?

Every generation has to have something to rebel against I guess.

I was sort of hoping theyd keep pushing against sexism, and do better with the environment, but it kind of makes sense that it's broadly around sexuality instead I suppose.

Thanks to my education on here trying to get in early with my dds (11 and 13) to inculcate gender critical reality. Who knows if this will hold as they get older but all I can do. Dd2 is very feminist in one of her “extraordinary girls” type books was a trans girl lauded for being “stunning and brave”.

I did have. But I've calmly challenged the misinformation that's come from school and we had a very long discussion after she overheard most of one week on my Institute of Feminist Thought course which opened the door. We didn't get to agreement on that night, but seeds were planted that maybe everything wasn't as black and white as some people were saying.

I also asked her to proof-read my letter to school about their gn toilets. She started coming to me with her complaints where women/girls had been disadvantaged in pursuit of gender neutrality.

And then I asked her if she wanted to come to the wpuk meeting in February and she said yes!

The journey continues ...

I think there some evidence that arguing with opposing view points actually further entrenches both sides

bigthink.com/think-tank/the-backfire-effect-why-facts-dont-win-arguments - this isn't where I read it originally but covers the idea.

I tend to try and ask question and counter the misinformation they get – but not by tell them but exposing them to different sources of information - science programs progams that look at misuse of stats such as more or less -or asking questions and trying to get them to notice inconsistences.

So far they don’t seem to be swallowing it – but I do worry for the future.

My eldest is the opposite - he’s an ‘edgelord’ and his hobby is ‘triggering the little libs’. It’s part of his ongoing rebellion against me, it’s why he eats meat too 😂
He’s surrounded by ‘wokescolds’ at uni and takes great pleasure in telling his classmates they are wrong.
Funny thing is TWAmostdefinitelynotW is one of the few positions we actually share.

Middle daughter (13) currently identifies as a boy but she thinks her big brother is cool and he thinks ‘identifying’ as anything is beyond stupid, so hopefully he will be one of the things that pulls her out of it. School actually put the trans idea in her head so it’s good she is getting completely different messaging from someone only 6 years older.

I have a woke four year old who recently informed me 'not all boys have penises and not all girls have vaginas'.

Also have a woke partner which explains the above.

@Madhairday I could have written the first part of your post almost word for word. DS1 is heavily involved with the Lib Dems at uni and all that entails.
Had quite an intense argument debate with him over Christmas and only by seeing how visibly upset I was about some of the things that happened to me (and my friends) when I was younger, did he seem take on board some of what I was saying.
He kept telling me it was a generational thing, to which I replied it was because we've lived through it, that we don't want it to happen to our daughters.

One DD even cried thinking I’d suddenly turned extreme right wing overnight.

Maybe you should point out that the one overtly GC party in the U.K. seems to be the Communists - unsurprising as they understand class analysis and oppression. (Theres a thread at the moment).

Fortunately my DD (20 now) shows no signs of wokeness - perhaps it helps that she's in a male dominated field where they're still consciously trying to overcome old fashioned sexism.

I think when they are students or mixing only with other young people, it's quite easy for them to say they don't mind TW using their toilets, but when you show them a photo of Karen White they can understand our POV a bit more clearly.

right-on demonstration

I lived on the side of a road in a tent for two years at age 16-18 - outside a nuclear base. I spoke at rallies; to school and trade union groups......did every type of right o demonstration going.....etc

But then reality started to show its face.......people in the peace movement were not very peaceful.....all the usual inter-personal conflicts and strife...led me to more of an inner path.......if you cannot get yourself right, how can you help the world?

Idealism is a wonderful thing; beautiful visions for our secular times.....but then comes the conflicts and compromises.

My year 10 DS is v gender critical, though he knows what he is meant to say in public so as not to offend anyone. There is a FtM child in his class and it's all a bit 'emperor's new clothes' at his school.

My Year 8 DD is more woke but also more feminist and is beginning to see the reality. Caitlyn Jenner in the jungle programme really helped demonstrate that TW are TW, and showed her privilege rather than what its like being a women your whole life.

Yep, I have 2! We can’t even discuss it anymore. One DD even cried thinking I’d suddenly turned extreme right wing overnight. I’m drip feeding tiny points and hoping for a slow realisation- I’m guessing this will take years but that’s fine.
Irony is, they think there should be different places for sports and prisons on the whole but don’t see this is what would get them called Txxf too.

I'm not sure if it is sinking In or whether she actually agrees with me but doesn't want to be seen to be prejudiced. She's an intelligent, bright, articulate young lady so I cannot see how she could not agree with the biological arguments

No matter how well you get in she will just categorise you as old, conservative and fuddy duddy...All young people do that with their parents. The most important thing to them is the spirit and zeitgeist of their time and their social circle....

Remember when we were young and full of idealistic fire and passion? I do! As years go by you gain the benefit of lived experience - and the shine comes off somewhat.

I have a woke lesbian teen. She knows my feelings on the issue. It all came to a head the time she told me it was trans people who started the stonewall riots and I lectured her on precisely who Storme De Laverie was and how she was effectively erasing lesbians from history.
I also have the "advantage" of having known one of the few murdered UK trans women. She does not like me pointing out that he was happy to present and be called "he" in a professional context where it was definitely to his advantage to be male and only put on the female persona in a restricted context. He was happy to use male privilege to his advantage when it suited him so any mention of the martyrdom of trans women gets the raised eyebrow from me.

I have the opposite. Gender critical early 20s DS within a very 'woke' (we used to call it 'right on') subculture/music scene. Because he is idealistic and passionate, he wants to publicly argue the case for women. But I have to keep reminding him to be very careful what he says/posts on SM. Because he is young and his friends/social life/music scene are too important to risk being ostracised from. He sends me stuff, memes he has made, via DM because he can't risk a pile on. It's so frustrating.

Yeah. He'll grow out of it though.

Very selectively woke IMO. Red hot on trans rights. Utterly woolly about feminist rights-for-women issues. I don't engage much because normally I'm very laid back and they both start at the anger in my voice when I contfront the misgyny thinly veiled that they spout. But if they don;t mature and grow out of it in the next few years we will be having deep and detailed conversations for life.

Woke is the buzzword for deluded.

OP could you ask your child if there are any in her peer group who haven't signed up to this?

A friend has one. Funnily enough, he's the same one I referred to on another thread who has lied about having dyslexia and has cheated his way through all his exams from having extra time.

Which considering he bangs on about social justice all the time, yet falls apart in a blustering snowflake tantrum if his parents or any other adult asks even one question of him, makes it even more hilarious/pathetic.

I very much sympathise with you OP.

My eldest DD has just graduated from a v woke uni and is very TWAW. I find this very challenging to comprehend - she would describe herself as a feminist but very much liberal rather than radical.

We did have an interesting discussion about TW in sport recently - she couldn't counter my arguments at all (I posted about it at the time).

We are very close and this is the only thing we completely disagree agree on - mainly we just don't discuss it.

My younger DD is gay and has lots of woke online friends, but actually gets it far more. She understands the safeguarding side of it.

Also caitlyn jenner helped her up the mountain - she just said so where is CJ's dysphoria! I explained about other reasons why older men tend to transition (not sure if I'm allowed to say it😔).

We have many discussions about the whole subject, and she is getting it more and more.

So there is hope!