Can men really grasp women’s reality re safety?

I have been sexually harassed at work, I was almost abducted as a kid by a creepy man who used to hang around our neighbourhood trying to entice kids into his car

I think the vast majority women and girls have had such experiences if they honest with themselves.....I recall several seriously creepy men, at bus stops, on buses, on my way to school back in the 1970's ; men hanging around the all girls school netball court, masturbating and throwing pornography over the fence......taxi drivers shouting sexual obscenities at me as a twelve year old; intimidating comments on the street.....and so on......

HorsWithNoDoeuvres

Please point to the post where I said I don't believe what people are saying

I didn't say you don't believe them. I asked you if you don't believe them

Well? Do you believe them?

Why are you leaping to this bizarre line of thought? Your explanation is disingenuous. There is nothing in what I posted which justifies your interrogation yet you felt the need to post "I. Believe. Woman" Why post that unless you are insinuating I don't?

I'm not going to answer your question because it is a stupid question and wholly irrelevant to what I posted. No doubt you will spin that to your own agenda.

OP he is not compassionate if he doesn’t get such basic stuff

For some people compassion and empathy only comes with direct personal experience.........he's only 19...and has been brought up with 'equality'. No awareness yet of the deep structure......Many young women, likewise.......benefitted from the struggle for women's opportunities and expression......but not cognisant of what lies beneath.

The reasons I feel unsafe walking alone at night and in situations where men could potentially become aggressive have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with having no father (I did have a father- a good one), I didnt grow up in a single parent home, I dont have mental health issues and I dont have a "nervous disposition".

The sole and only reason I feel fear is due to my experiences of being groped, shouted/catcalled, manhandled, and forced into situations that I actively did not want by predatory men. On three separate occasions I have had men try to force themselves on me sexually in attempted rape scenarios, I have been sexually harassed at work, I was almost abducted as a kid by a creepy man who used to hang around our neighbourhood trying to entice kids into his car.

The idea that my fear is due to my parents or whatever is utter bollocks. My fear comes from my lived experiences as a woman where I have been made to feel fear for my personal safety from men. Thats it.
I am not going to take responsibility for that fear, it is a justifiable reaction to the experiences I have had and attempts to blame me for it will not work because I know it has nothing to do with me and everything to do with men's shitty behaviour.

OP he is not compassionate if he doesn’t get such basic stuff

I think a lot of men hold this weird tension, where they both get it and don't

I think you're right! They do get it because they have close relationships with women and are exposed to their stories and experiences; but they also don't get it at an instinctive level because they have not grown up with the same codes and rules, and expectations

This is exactly my situation. I am male, grew up in the 70's with only brothers and a very much traditional SAHM. I have always been involved in sport, including combat sports. Other men and situations never worry me.
It was through getting married, having DD's and growing up in general and joing MN that I have been able to experience things from a female perspective. I don't instinctively do things, I still have to also assess each situation. But in my case it's not for personal safety, but for the safety and well being of women.

I think to a certain extent everyone is aware and vigilant, that is just “street smarts” and applies to every man, woman, child.

I know for a fact that DH risk assesses situations, is wary around groups of lads, etc. and I know he's not alone. It's only sensible, and it's not only women who do it.
Maybe if he was 6'4" and barrel chested like a PP's DH he wouldn't be, who knows?

I can't say there have been many occasions when I have actually feared for my life. Maybe once or twice I have been properly terrified. But the fact that I am almost certain to get home safely doesn't mean that along the way I won't be made to feel uncomfortable. I'm middle aged now so largely invisible. But as a younger woman it was hard to walk from A to B without at least one man commenting on my looks. If it was a compliment I was apparently supposed to be delighted with the attention and anything other than fawning gratitude was often met with anger. If it was an insult, they seemed to want to see me burst into tears. And then there's the groping...

I always got home safely, I didn't become a murder statistic. But why is it just accepted that we have to live like that and stop making a fuss about nothing? If men were made to feel self conscious and awkward every time they left the house between the ages of 13 and 35 or so, things would change.

It's probably one of a huge number of problems that a rise in single parenthood is responsible for.

That old chestnut.

Yes, the reality for women is that the U.K. is very safe. Although it is true that No where is 100% safe.

Just because women fear for their safety, does not mean they are or were unsafe when they were afraid. The fear expressed here seems OTT compared to the reality.

I think to a certain extent everyone is aware and vigilant, that is just “street smarts” and applies to every man, woman, child.

I think victim blaming causes too much fear. The idea that you won’t get hurt if you do x,y,z. I’m of the opinion that if I get stabbed or murdered it won’t matter how vigilant or fearful or careful I was. That it is fate. If my number is up, it is up. So I have less fear.

the chances of being attacked

Instinctive fear or threat responses are not the exact same thing as direct experience or reality. Just because we have never been burgled, doesn't lead to us leaving our doors unlocked at night, does it? Or worrying that we have left our windows open .....or that we have left our purse on the front seat of the car...and so on.....

Please point to the post where I said I don't believe what people are saying.

I didn't say you don't believe them. I asked you if you don't believe them.

Well? Do you believe them?

I don't think most men get the level of awareness that women have to potential threat.
Most of my life I feel safe. I walk my dog alone at night for example. But I don't feel that secure everywhere and if I am somewhere I feel less safe, I am more aware. I work in a big city and feel much more vulnerable there, even though there are far more people around. Or maybe because there are more people around.

The problem is likely one that you have and would definitely be wise to seek professional help, as it can't be nice to feel this way

No it can't be.....sounds like a trauma response.......but your response is very dismissive and lacking in depth of understanding or compassion.

Also dismissive, therefore, of the inherent vulnerabilities that we all face just being out in the world - beneath the civilised veneer...and women's specific physical vulnerabilities.

It is odd, isn't it...that when a trans person tells us they are terrified and suicidal and the most vulnerable of the vulnerable in society...that nobody is permitted to say it is a mental health issue......

Interesting video on the BBC about what happens when women start to design cities rather than men. It's something they're trialling in Barcelona at the moment.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/embed/p07t2tpj/50658537

Basically, there are more toilets, less cars, more benches, more open spaces, more use of public transport and much more effective reporting of sexual harassment amongst other things.

I think it basically comes down to the premise of getting women into these positions whereby they're in authority to shape the world. Because I'm sure there are aspects of life that men just don't grasp for women, no matter how hard they try (and just for balance, I'm sure the opposite is true as well). It has to be 50/50.

I also refer to the original title and would claim that it is not a reality that women are unsafe in the UK, in fact it is one of the safest countries in the world and the chances of being attacked while just innocently walking along are about the equivalent of winning the lottery, it's almost certainly not going to happen.

The problem is likely one that you have and would definitely be wise to seek professional help, as it can't be nice to feel this way.

But what? When people tell you they feel this way you don't believe them?

I. Believe. Women

Please point to the post where I said I don't believe what people are saying. You can't- because I haven't.

You might try applying your own doctrine and believe that for this particular woman this culture of constant fear bears no resemblance to her life.

without a strong male role model

Depends on your definition of masculine strength, though......and even children of single parents can have loving and close relationships with other male relatives; grandfathers, uncles and so on.

I think boys, rather than girls, are more vulnerable to lack of direct, positive, male role model.

“ I keep moving. I am always moving. I take the stairs, not the lift, never stand on the escalators if on my own, but walk up them instead. I don’t pause to look in shop windows, or watch buskers or the cup-and-ball conmen; I walk on, quickly, with purpose – because I like to get where I am going, yes, but also because I know it’s harder to hit a moving target. If you dart past the rest of the world, allow yourself to be a blur, you’re less likely to be noticed, to attract their attention, get them to question whether there’s something different about you that they either desire, fear, or feel powerful enough to exploit. Experience has taught me perpetual motion is my greatest protection.”

This was not written by a woman. Besides it’s all wrong. Darting past the rest of the world/perpetual motion does attract attention.

I’m a woman and I don’t get it! I certainly don’t recognise the passage over copied from above.

However I don’t go around feeling like a victim.

“ I keep moving. I am always moving. I take the stairs, not the lift, never stand on the escalators if on my own, but walk up them instead. I don’t pause to look in shop windows, or watch buskers or the cup-and-ball conmen; I walk on, quickly, with purpose – because I like to get where I am going, yes, but also because I know it’s harder to hit a moving target. If you dart past the rest of the world, allow yourself to be a blur, you’re less likely to be noticed, to attract their attention, get them to question whether there’s something different about you that they either desire, fear, or feel powerful enough to exploit. Experience has taught me perpetual motion is my greatest protection.”

*But what? When people tell you they feel this way you don't believe them8

i think many people, both male and female, do have difficulty empathising with others who have directly experienced situations unfamiliar to them....personally feel if one is open and honest there is always a shared human condition which can be recognised if one is open to feeling/seeing it.

male attention

No. Other than since I started reading FWR thinking am I supposed to be living my life like this? I still don't

We all have different backgrounds and experiences -even if united by the specific vulnerabilities of our femaleness. Many women have suffered sexual abuse or witnessed domestic violence either in childhood or later on as adults......while others have lived our lives free of that level of abuse or violence while still recognising on our own vulnerabilities. I certainly recognise mine......even as a strong, confident and outspoken woman......I've certainly experienced much unwanted make attention over the years, and felt very uncomfortable in certain situations...I absolutely recognise the instinctive level of threat that women experience - even as we learn to live with and manage it.

Consciousness raising is a wonderful thing. Allows one to see what is hiding in the shadows and operating beneath the surface.

I don't think most woman are very scared going through normal life.

However, I think if it's a common problem it's most likely due to the women affected being raised without a strong male role model in their household. Having had this I can't understand why any woman would feel so vulnerable.
It's probably one of a huge number of problems that a rise in single parenthood is responsible for.