Can men really grasp women’s reality re safety?

I think in general it's true that teenage boys and men in their 20s are probably less likely to think about issues of safety from women's perspectives, especially if they are of the strong, sporty type and haven't grown up with female siblings or have many female friends. When you're young and healthy it's easy to be self-centred, irrespective of your sex.

Everyone understands overtly aggressive or creepy behaviour, but guys don't always notice the subtle ones or the way many women can be instinctively wary of their surroundings.

Sadly, whether man or woman, a lot of people don't really care about things unless it has some direct effect on them.
So as men get older and might have daughters, then they come to appreciate the importance of women's safety or keeping men out of women's sport.
It's why women can fawn over TWAW and not give a shit about women in prisons, women experiencing DV or sexual assault and needing to use shelters etc because they have not had to undergo such scenarios themselves and so don't see why such matters should concern them. One of their pals is trans and a lovely person and that's all that matters.
It's why people scoff at things like social welfare or nationalised healthcare because they are either rich or healthy so think it's a waste of 'their' time and money. Some people have to actually experience severe or chronic ill health and lose their jobs before they come to appreciate the importance of such things.

So I guess it's a combination of humans in general being uninterested in issues unless it affects them in some way, as well as a sense of obliviousness that comes from being male and not having to worry about where you go and what you do.
There's no real malice or deliberate looking away, imo, but a naive obliviousness, especially if they grow up surrounded by 'men and women are equal' messages.

As mentioned by another poster, minds and hearts can be changed over time when women talk to their male partners and sons. There might be initial resistance or defensive denial because a lot of men feel it reflects on their behaviour in some way or forces them to be introspective about themselves and other men in ways they haven't had to. But good, decent men eventually get it; even if they cannot directly relate to or empathise with the concerns, they can still understand women's fears and worries from an intellectual and human level.

Beautifulstranger101

I'm sorry that you've had some awful experiences, but I'm sure you'll agree that you've been extremely unfortunate to have been victim to so many instances and that it is very very unlikely that it is what most women will ever experience.
While I understand this might have made you wary I still think it may be worthwhile seeking professional help to ease you through what has been traumatising and continues to affect you r daily life to the extent you're so frightened.

This isn't blaming you for what happened. I'm simply stating that your level of fear is not rational behaviour even if it is a rational response to your trauma.

It's also very damaging for young men to be viewed this way

What you said applies here equally to men- men can manage their own anxieties regarding how they are viewed and they should generally be able to counter micro aggressions.

I don't think any 'structures' support aggressions

Personally think that is naive..... Social structures which have arisen out of basic biological differences......such as the potential for pregnancy, childbirth, childcare......and other basic differences between the sexes ( men stronger physically etc) are still there...and always will be.

Women may have 'equality' on paper - but in practice real life intrudes as most of us of a certain age and experience will attest to.There is still a pay gap, for example.....and this comes down to deep structural issues and set-ups and prejudices ( & practices) around women in the work place.....Women's biology and women's many caring social roles cannot be done away with by an act of legislation. Society is complex and so are people and their relationships.

I found a Guardian article related to this fear and it's based on a Danielle Muscado tweet - of all people!

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/08/women-men-curfew-danger-fear

Women are smaller and weaker than men. Most men are taller and a man of equal size is 13% stronger than the woman.

The vast majority of men are stronger than most women.

For average - smaller women - all men are stronger than them. This is the lived reality. Most violence is perpetrated by men against women. It is a choice. Most men choose not to. Some choose to. Women and girls have to be mindful and be vigilant of those who chose to be violent.

I do agree with the fact that women should manage their anxieties better. Not least as this is passed on to their children and is not a healthy state of mind to be in where they instinctively fear men for no good reason. It's also very damaging for young men to be viewed this way

And men should manage their behaviour better too- by reinforcing that no means no and talking to their sons about issues like consent, harassment, and educating them on appropriate behaviour.

I do agree with the fact that women should manage their anxieties better. Not least as this is passed on to their children and is not a healthy state of mind to be in where they instinctively fear men for no good reason. It's also very damaging for young men to be viewed this way.

I don't think any 'structures'suppirt aggressions. The structures in our society have men and women the most equal they've ever been. Of course there are cases of toxic masculinity and femininity, but these aren't accepted as normal and indeed people should generally be able to counter the occasional 'micro aggression'.

I had no "agenda" beyond what I said- this level of fear is alien to my experience.

Is it really totally alien? Can you not recognise anything at all in what she said?

No I didn't even consider the ridiculous notion of same sex toilers

Good! Because I could see that for some this would be the exact same line of reasoning....that women and girls should manage their anxieties even when confronted with males in female spaces.....

I am dismissive because your posts deserve to be dismissed. I said nothing whatsoever about not believing women yet you posted your sanctimonious "I.Believe.Women" ? Why post that except to insinuate I don't

You've got the wrong person.....I am simply an observer of your interaction with another poster. You could have worded your response in less of an inflammatory way.

No I didn't even consider the ridiculous notion of same sex toilers.

It's not for anyone else to change the way they act unless they're being inappropriate

I think we all need to be conscious of aggressions, micro-aggressions and the structures which often support them, myself.

I also don't know why it matters if others are aware

Because we human beings are by nature social....and social relationships ned to be negotiated and managed.

I've never been able to find it since, but I have had some success recounting this analogy.

You say, imagine living in a world where there are a whole race of superhumans, bigger, stronger, with most of the power and money and entitlement to your body, attention, using you as entertainment etc Growing up in families with them, working with them, in relationships with them etc

Anyone else come across this?

My physically abusive ex who was a whole foot taller, with twice my reach, refused to even listen, but he would..

Ariadne - you were very dismissive in tone in your response......and that is where this particular defensive situation arose....If that is what you mean by 'agenda'? What is your agenda or basic message?

I am dismissive because your posts deserve to be dismissed. I said nothing whatsoever about not believing women yet you posted your sanctimonious "I.Believe.Women" ? Why post that except to insinuate I don't?

I had no "agenda" beyond what I said- this level of fear is alien to my experience.

The only person I can see with an agenda is you- again why post"I . Believe. Women" . Nobody, including me had said they didn't.

This being frightened is a problem that you have to deal with rationally. It's not for anyone else to change the way they act unless they're being inappropriate

Some issues and fears are structural........in that certain things tend to effect some groups more than others.....solutions should be structural too....and that is why we have single sex spaces in the first place........and why around the world women require certain spaces to be single sex so that they can participate in life and in the world.

I don't know if they can if they have no direct experience. Most men are fine and will not grope/shout lewd comments/hit/ rape etc. However, there seems to be an increase in these behaviours and an increase in victim blaming than from when I was younger. There seems more of a "macho" culture. I don't know exactly but I do worry for my DD growing up around this. I won't use one of our local tube stations later at night due to groups of men hanging around (the other is fine) I don't like having to avoid it to feel safer.
I was cat sitting over Christmas and the last night I did a later visit and asked DP to come with me as I had to walk past a lot of cafes where there are groups of men outside. Again most are fine but others not so.
I have no magic solution to change it but male bravado and behaviour needs to change. It also needs to be understood how it can affect females.

This being frightened is a problem that you have to deal with rationally. It's not for anyone else to change the way they act unless they're being inappropriate

If you by any chance might be suggesting that it is for individual women to 'mange their responses' so that male bodied people can access single sex spoces....you are not on.....Single sex spaces exist for good reason. Male bodied people can also manage their anxiety and use the sex appropriate space. And that is what they should do.

Nobody is requesting mixed sex spaces; most women have not got a clue what is being slid in under the radar......it is being enforced by stealth......

Totally agree- in discussions with my friends it seems this is depressingly common

Obviously, some of us are inherently more resilient than others...and learn to move in the world without being blind-sided and frightened all of the time...but that doesn't have to mean that we cannot recognise the inherent vulnerabilities of being female.

Op saying he’s only 19, that’s old enough to know how women get harassed etc. I think adolescence is being extended though...

But seriously, when we were teens, boys knew the problem was boys!

I’d be interested to know, if he’s heterosexual, would he date a trans woman?

I also don't know why it matters if others are aware. This being frightened is a problem that you have to deal with rationally. It's not for anyone else to change the way they act unless they're being inappropriate.

No doubt you will spin that to your own agenda

Ariadne - you were very dismissive in tone in your response......and that is where this particular defensive situation arose....If that is what you mean by 'agenda'? What is your agenda or basic message?

Do you not feel that women generally have any specific physical vulnerabilities out in the world?

@justhadathought

Totally agree- in discussions with my friends it seems this is depressingly common. Yet still people are telling women they are to blame for being hysterical and overreacting. After experiences like that its hardly shocking people feel wary.