Can men really grasp women’s reality re safety?

Charlie “ It's obviously not helpful to anyone to view men just as potential rapists.”

Where did the word “just” come from?

Anyway, I find it very helpful to view them that way. I’m sure a lot of women find it helpful.

“ It would be terrible if men saw woman as only potential to falsely accused them. While there's always a small chance the likelihood of it happening is absolutely minute.”

Sure. So let’s imagine for a minute that men and avoid each other because of all this. What’s the problem? A mass reduction in population? I call that a result!

Beautiful

'men' don't need to manage their behaviour better. That's mysandry to claim that. You're talking about a small minority of badly behaved men who rape women. The majority of men are capable of behaving perfectly well and it's not evident that men, any more than women, need to regulate their behaviour.
Women will always be attracted to strong ,competent, masculine, dominant men. As long as they don't act inappropriately then I find they behave as expected.

Men can’t grasp the reality of women’s safety situation because the reality is too different. Men are in much more danger of violent crime than women. They are far more likely to be assaulted or murdered than women are.

For us women to sit here and say men do not know fear and don’t have to be careful is being oblivious to the real dangers they do in fact face.

To say our fear is especially bad or so much worse than men’s fear is to paint women as the weaker sex according to the old damsel in distress gender stereotype. I don’t buy it.

Everyone feels fear. Neither sex has a monopoly on fear and women are not biologically programmed to be especially vulnerable to fear. If you think women are, you’re buying into gender stereotypes.

It's obviously not helpful to anyone to view men just as potential rapists

You have a tendency to go only for the low hanging fruit - in your defence of aggressive or entitled masculine behaviour. Many of us who post here are married you know, and have sons ourselves.

Always amazes me how much un-sisterliness there is about, even amongst women who claim to be feminists......You'll be glad of sisterhood, one day, when you need it yourself.

*Instilling self confidence in girls and women from an early age would help greatly if this is a wider issue8

Yes, yes, yes...but we all exist in a certain wider context.......no matter how confident the girl, she will still encounter the prejudices, threats and so on......that are down to her femaleness.........

That you are even questioning that this is such a widespread set of issues...makes me wonder how narrow a circle of life you inhabit?

Autumn rose
I deed men can and do dea l with those issues, I wasn't aware I had said they were struggling in any way.

It's obviously not helpful to anyone to view men just as potential rapists.
It would be terrible if men saw woman as only potential to falsely accused them. While there's always a small chance the likelihood of it happening is absolutely minute.

*No women don't just have equality on paper, they have it in LAW8

And yet women's rights and spaces now take second place to men identifying ( how insulting) as women. Women are still expecting to budge up and 'be nice'; and have not even been consulted on such changes.

Samira Ahmed has just had to go to court to challenge gender inequality in practice.....even though the law says it is there already. In practice, it isn't.

No, most violence is perpetrated by men against men...

Too many words.

most violence is perpetrated by men.

There, fixed it for you.

Everyone understands overtly aggressive or creepy behaviour, but guys don't always notice the subtle ones or the way many women can be instinctively wary of their surroundings

Absolutely! the subtle things....the creepiness..being used as an unwilling participant in a sexual fantasy and so on....the look of disdain on the street; or the resentment that a woman is in the way on the pavement ( often has a sexed element to it) and so on.......this is part of the soup we exist in...even as we get used to it and begin to see it as normal.....

I was sexually assaulted on holidays when I was 20. A man broke into the accommodation where I was sleeping (alone), I woke up in pitch darkness to find him on top of me trying to rape me. I fought him off and escaped but afterwards I was deeply traumatised.

I probably should have had counselling but for 2 or 3 years after it happened, I was actually terrified of men. I was scared to walk anywhere alone, if a strange man tried to speak to me I would instantly be suspicious of his motives, a simple compliment would make me feel nauseous. My anxiety was through the roof. I’m ok now but it took me years to get over it. Men will never understand how scared some women can be of them.

And also if you've had difficulty saying 'no' to guys I'm still unsure as to where the issue lies. A low self confidence could leave you vulnerable to men in situations where you feel you can't say no.

Instilling self confidence in girls and women from an early age would help greatly if this is a wider issue.

I said in my post I asked my friendship group

No you said “other women” in your post.
Doesn’t matter a friendship group is still not any better than a therapy client group. It’s all anecdotal.

* ..*I'm not going to answer your question..

Not to worry, I'll soon get my life back on track. It's come as a blow tho'..

beautiful I find if you talk to women about their experiences, we’ve mostly had problems

Agreed.

beautiful I find if you talk to women about their experiences, we’ve mostly had problems.

If you talked to the many many women who are not coming to you for therapy, you’d see a different picture

I said in my post I asked my friendship group- the many women I have around me in my life.

I'm not referring to women i have seen in a therapeutic situation.

I am a therapist and have worked in psych for years.

Well to be fair then, you will mostly be talking to women who need therapy and it would be common for women who need therapy to have experienced trauma or suffer from anxiety. If you talked to the many many women who are not coming to you for therapy, you’d see a different picture.

Charlie “ It's also very damaging for young men to be viewed this way.”

To be viewed what way please? As potential rapists? Or as lacking in empathy?

Just as women can deal with their concerns - as I do by being constantly aware and on the move etc - if men are worried about being seen as a potential rapist, they can deal with that concern themselves.

Most violence is perpetrated by men against women.

No, most violence is perpetrated by men against men. Men are the vast majority of victims of violence.

I don't agree that it's common for most woman to have have been victim of attempted rape more than once.

I think it's common for women to get advances from men but most are able to get by without the level of fear that you seem to have built up. Again I'm sorry you have suffered this.

I think men only see the sexual threat men pose to women. Every man will understand why a woman doesn’t feel safe walking home alone at night, but for them it’s a 1 dimential threat, that she might be raped. What they don’t get is the threat we feel because of the disparity in size and strength.

I had a conversation a while ago with a bloke I consider to be very decent. His mask slips occasionally but not in a way that makes me feel threatened. He got really defensive when I pointed out that women are in more danger because they’re smaller and weaker than men, even the men other men consider weak and non threatening. ‘Do you think I’ve never felt threatened by a man’ he asked? Well yes, of course you’ve felt threatened by a man, but you’re 5 feet 9 and have the physical characteristics of a man in his early 30s, so it will be a larger and stronger than average male who makes you feel threatened. I’m a 5 foot 2 woman and have the physicality of a woman, so it’s potentially any male, even elderly males or any male he’d consider weak and unthreatening who in certain circumstances would make me feel threatened.

The vast majority of them just don’t get it, in fact I’ve never met one who does. They think of the penis as the only threat to women and that’s it.

No women don't just have equality on paper, they have it in LAW .

You've answered for me really. It's the fact that there are innate differences between men and women that affect equality between the two. That's different from simply a bias from the structure supporting one over another.

When all differences are accounted for there is no pay gap. If anything there's a trend to young women being paid more than their male counterparts.

I'm sure you'll agree that you've been extremely unfortunate to have been victim to so many instances and that it is very very unlikely that it is what most women will ever experience

I dont agree, no. On speaking with other women these experiences are actually very very common. To think any of these are "rare" is unfortunately very naive. Test this theory- ask the women you know if they have ever felt scared alone at night or ever been harassed by a man, or ever felt it was difficult saying no to a guy. I think you'll be surprised at their responses.

Thank you for the advice- I do not need to seek professional help. I am a therapist and have worked in psych for years. I am fully aware of the psychological mechanisms that are at play here.

Do agree with the fact that women should manage their anxieties bette

Most women do; we have to - to exist and act in the world. Just as men have to mange their anxieties around other males and in certain types of social space.

But that doesn't take away from the very real fact that men are bigger and stronger, and that women are inherently vulnerable physically and/or sexually.

I have a grown up daughter and now a granddaughter; and also two grown up sons......I am a confident, strong woman who has done my own thing in my life as much as possible- but that doesn't take away from the fact that i have also been physically vulnerable in certain situations, and that i can recognise why women require single sex spaces in certain intimate and vulnerable situations.

i don't want my granddaughter having to be uncomfortable around boys in school toilets because she has her period ( she's just five years old at present), and I want for het to be sporty and athletic ( she already is) and be able to compete on a level playing field with other girls.....when necessary& in the interests of fairness.

My two boys are good men. They can recognise, now, the very specific vulnerabilities of women and respect that. One of my sons has already noticed how it is only the women, on the call-help line he works on, who are subject to perverts and fetishists ringing up and masturbating over the phone for example........

Sex differences are real and have to be handled appropriately.