Can men really grasp women’s reality re safety?

Me-thinks Charlie is a very angry man, typing furiously from his bedsit with his cock out.
No woman is this stupid

I actually hope so, because its horrifying to think a woman thinks that way too.

I do think a lot of women don't see it either.

On FB, I'm always seeing posts like 'Works both ways', etc, etc

I think it’s very difficult to assess how much fear of male violence shapes our lives because we internalise from such an early age its existence and at an early age are socialised to circumscribe our lives to account for that.

I can’t remember which writer it was who went into the reasons for Bill Gates’ astonishing success, but one of the tales he told was of Gates’ parents allowing him to work quite late at school and ride the bus home in the wee hours.

If Gates’ parents had had a daughter instead of Bill, one who was equally as precocious, would they ever have allowed her to do the same?

There are things we simply never ever consider doing, things that never enter consciousness as possibility, because we’ve already internalised that these things aren’t possible for us as females in a male-dominated world.

That’s what some of consciousness-raising and female-only space and conversation was always meant to break.

And I believe ALL men realize the strength differential. They realise it on the playground as soon as puberty starts to kick in. Why else do they scoff so much at women’s sports?

Man I'm seeing is also about the same height as me and not a particularly strong man but I still wouldnt fancy my chances against him if he turned nasty.

Biology and all that.

Me-thinks Charlie is a very angry man, typing furiously from his bedsit with his cock out.
No woman is this stupid.

@Charlienotman and FYI being a six foot male, strong rugby player was absolutely no use in that situation. I genuinely cannot believe you would ever consider typing something so utterly awful.

Being raped is not comparable to a playfight with someone you trust.

I think people like the 19 year old who doesn't get it need to learn how to listen, really listen to others talking about their lived experiences.

I don't "get it" about that passage for a reason - I dont feel the need to keep moving- but I'm not the author, I'm a natal female, white, living in a relatively safe country and safe part of the country at that, and I'm not uncommon, there are plenty of people of my skin colour and sex around. If I were to try to go for a walk by myself in one of the Arabian countries where women don't go out anywhere without men, where a blonde, blue eyed white woman by herself would stick out like a sore thumb, I would probably have a much keener sense of understanding of it. Doesnt mean I can't recognise that it is the lived experience of somebody else.

Women have a defence mechanism in that they can prevent anything from penetrating them if there's a strong will to do so

What utter garbage and you've really outed yourself as a rape apologist here. I'm 5'10" and go to the gym regularly (lift weights etc)
My H never goes to the gym although he has a very physical job. There no way I could over power him even if I desperately wanted to. He is physically stronger than me. I can't even win in an arm wrestle so the idea people can prevent rape if only they really want to is an appalling and revolting attitude. Urgh.

I don't share the fear but I was raped by someone who climbed through my bedroom window when I was fast asleep in the middle of the night. Plus countless other 'lucky escapes'.

If I were going to be afraid of all men in risky situations, then I'd never go anywhere or do anything. I know you are only raped because you encounter a rapist.

I'm aware of men around me and I carry my keys between my fingers.

I was explaining it to a new guy I am seeing and he was shocked when I said I'd felt apprehension at going to his house for the first time.

But then, a few days later, I was grabbed by a stranger a the shop at the end of his road. I got back to his shaking and in tears and I think he got it then.

Women have a defence mechanism in that they can prevent anything from penetrating them if there's a strong will to do so.

Umm. You twat.

@Charlienotman don't be ridiculous your DH will be trying not to hurt you. It isn't an equivalent situation.

Would your DH head-butt you in the face to break your nose and incapacitate you? Would he force a broken bottle into your vagina if he couldn't penetrate with his penis? I suspect not. But in a real life attack these sort of things happen.

@Charlienotman You’re literally blaming women for being raped.

Women have a defence mechanism in that they can prevent anything from penetrating them if there's a strong will to do so

What have I just read? Are you arguing that rape doesn't actually exist? Because that's what it sounds like.

As a woman, I know that almost any able bodied male between the age of about 15 and 60 could probably strangle me with his bare hands if he so chose to. (And then he could maybe even get away with manslaughter instead of murder because he could say it was a 'moment of madness' but that's another discussion altogether.)

It is incredibly unlikely to happen, thankfully, but it is a fairly sobering thought. My husband is Mr Average, not particularly big, not particularly small, but I think there would have to be an exceptional difference in strength and size before someone could strangle him with their bare hands.

No, most violence is perpetrated by men against men. Men are the vast majority of victims of violence

Well the key point there is that most violence is perpetrated by men.

The crux of this discussion though is as much about the fear of attack as it is the reality of being attacked. Whilst it might be argued that an actual attack is infinitely more damaging than fear, that is too simplistic. Fear is emotionally draining, fear can be debilitating, fear feeds on itself and whilst an actual attack may only happen once in a lifetime, or never at all, fear can manifest itself as frequently as numerous times a day. For some women it can be incessant if the cause of their fear is their partner, a member of their household, a work colleague, a neighbour or someone else they simply cannot avoid.
I struggle to understand people who can't empathise with those who feel fear. Haven't we all been their at some point in our lives? Surely we all know how sickening it feels even if we're fortunate to be less prone to it than others? It's not a feeling you ever forget, at least not in my experience.

Plan great.

I do use the original quote sometimes but will stick with my amended one from now.

And if 11 year olds are saying they don't like the way men treat women they're either seeing bad behaviour at home or listening to the type of nonsense propaganda that teaches children they are produce from a tyrannical patriarchy.

Men don't have the absolute certainty that any other man in the street will kill them though. They assume that they will have at least a fighting chance. Even if a man is not particularly strong, a stranger won't know that, so in a lot of circumstances a confrontation can be bluffed out of.

Women know for certain that most men can overpower them easily. And they know that all the men know that too.

If nothing else this thread disproves the bullshit claim that this place is a so called "echo-chamber".

I think it's at least clear that all of this is the projection of fear and not reality. There may be a perceived threat that a woman walking home may be raped. Yes it night happen. But it's a fear, a bit like getting in a lift and having the fear the cable will snap.

The potential is there but it isn't grounded in any sort of reality.

Is it? I've seen it attributed on here to Germaine Greer and Margaret Atwood

I have no idea who originally said it, but I only became aware of it as it was quoted over and over by Gavin De Becker in his book on preventing violence.

I never made that statement, and I never once said anyone was "asking" to be assaulted or murdered. I am simply making the point that you dismissed mine because you said it was "anecdotal". Yet the only evidence you have provided for your point is also anecdotal.
Therefore, going by your own measuring stick, your argument doesnt stand, does it?

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them

Yes, and before accusations of misandry are thrown, that was a quote from a MAN

Is it? I've seen it attributed on here to Germaine Greer and Margaret Atwood.

One thing is for certain, I don't think that men in general fear that women are going to physically harm them. Even a man walking past a group of loud drunk females, behaving obnoxiously and inappropriately, is more likely to feel irritated by them than afraid of them.