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Original poster

Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here

254 replies

FannyCann · 01/01/2020 11:25

A Happy New Year to all.

I have been thinking about how I should concentrate my energies in the New Year - women are fighting many battles on so many fronts - against porn, prostitution, domestic abuse, the wonderful We Can’t Consent to this campaign, abortion rights, to maintain our spaces, our language, our sports and so much more that I haven’t mentioned.
For myself, I have been asked to join a particular campaign against surrogacy and I have decided that is where I will be devoting most of my time whilst still supporting all the other important causes in spirit at least.

The surrogacy market is a global business currently thought to be worth about $21billion with growth expected to reach about $41billion by 2026 according to India based market research firm Data Bridge. Women’s reproductive “services” are big business globally.

The Law Commission Consultation on new surrogacy law in the UK closed on 11 October 2019.
Many posters on FWR did great work researching, discussing and exploring the implications, educating and raising awareness, encouraging people to respond to the consultation so that responses weren’t simply confined to cheers of approval from “stakeholders” but real concerns and educated critique were raised.

Many of us may be wondering what happens next?

According to the Consultation paper what happens next is this: “After reviewing all responses, we will decide on our final recommendations for law reform, which we will publish in a report, accompanied by a draft bill (legislation) in 2021.”

The consultation, raising awareness and sharing the knowledge was very much the first battle. There is much to be done to follow up to prevent these harmful recommendations becoming law in the UK and to keep that global market out of the UK.

I am not able to give details but I wanted to let people know that there is work ongoing behind the scenes and small positive signs that the Law Commission are belatedly reaching out to some women’s groups who raised concerns.

Meanwhile I believe now is the time to prepare: we have a new parliament with many new MP’s who are no doubt completely unaware, now is the time to start lobbying MP’s and the government in advance if that draft legislation. I plan to hold my nose and meet with my MP, who is a staunch Catholic and who, for all his faults, I expect to take a dim view of the proposals. I will also be sending letters to key people in the government and department of health.

Since I first heard about the Consultation and proposed changes to the law just over a year ago, I have spent many hours reading, articles, legal cases, research papers, listening to podcasts, watching documentaries, reading and contributing to threads here, where so many other contributors share their knowledge and post informative links.

So I thought it might be helpful to have a resource thread, that we can refer to from time to time when looking for articles, research papers and other sources of information, links to FOIs, trying to find that thread where we saw interesting posts and so on.

I will kick off with some links to the consultation and related threads.

Please join in and add anything of interest you come across.

*The Consultation
*
Short summary

https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lawcom-prod-storage-11jsxou24uy7q/uploads/2019/06/Surrogacy-summary.pdf

The Full Consultation Document

https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lawcom-prod-storage-11jsxou24uy7q/uploads/2019/06/Surrogacy-consultation-paper.pdf

Obviously it is too late to respond now as the Consultation is closed, but for reference here is the recommended response to the summary from Nordic Model Now, which many of us used as a template or a guide to help us formulate our own responses.

https://nordicmodelnow.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/surrogacy-consultation-responses-pdf-2.pdff_

Several women’s organisations responded to the consultation with public letters:

Nordic Model Now Open letter:

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/10/11/open-letter-to-the-uk-and-scottish-law-commissioners-about-the-surrogacy-consultation/

WPUK submission to Law Commission consultation on surrogacy reform – Woman's Place UK

https://womansplaceuk.org/2019/10/08/wpuk-submission-to-law-commission-consultation-on-surrogacy-reform/

EVAW (End Violence Against Women) response:

https://www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-Letter-on-Surrogacy-.pdf

NIA response:

http://www.niaendingviolence.org.uk/perch/resources/surrogacy-consultation-response-october-2019.pdf

*Links to some of the related threads on FWR:
*
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womensrights/3606313-The-Rumplestiltskin-Laww__
_

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womenss_rights/3613356-All-male-Law-Commission-discussing-surrogacy

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womensrights/3651968-The-illegitimacy-of-the-Rumplestiltskin-Surrogacy-consultationn__

_
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womenss_rights/3706683-SURROGACY-CONSULTATION-ENDS-ON-FRIDAY-11-OCTOBER-PLEASE-SUBMIT-A-RESPONSE-Edited-by-MNHQ-at-OPs-request

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womensrights/3649812-building-families-through-surrogacy-a-new-law-consultationn__

_
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womenss_rights/3698520-Did-everyone-know-that-MN-now-has-a-surrogacy-board

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3169070-To-think-theres-a-valid-discussion-to-be-had-about-the-ethics-of-surrogacyy_

_
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womenss_rights/3708724-Famous-men-and-surrogacy

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Thread gallery
32
OhHolyJesus · 08/08/2021 08:24

'Expenses' for sperm donation is capped at £35 so the huge difference between that and egg donation recognises the vast difference between the two processes but I suspect the maximum for both is encouraged that you reach it regardless of how much it actually cost to get to a clinic etc.

It would be interesting to know whether any medical negligence cases for egg donation have ever been filed in the US or the U.K. I don't want to derail this thread as donor gametes are connected but this is a very interesting and shocking account of egg donation in the US. As clinics can advertise in the U.K. it is worrying to think of similar things happening here.

Original poster
FannyCann · 08/08/2021 06:23

No payment of £750 is for egg donation.

For surrogacy it's "expenses" which are averaging about £15,000 with a few topping £20,000.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 08/08/2021 00:12

payment being capped at £750

I saw costs being suggested as around £20k for a surrogate parent - is that for when they're paying someone overseas, perhaps?

Original poster
FannyCann · 07/08/2021 23:34

And as you say OhHoly it takes time to restore iron reserves and recover from a birth. The old midwives saying was "it takes nine months to make a baby and nine months to recover".
I'm sure we all know women who have unintentionally got pregnant again very soon after a birth, and it certainly brings its challenges, but when limiting a family to two or three I wouldn't think it would be much of a problem for most healthy women if the previous pregnancy and birth had gone well. But for serial surrogacy it has to be damaging to health.

Can't remember if I posted this upthread, but this woman had seven babies in eight years, including a life threatening haemorrhage and trio to ICU after the fifth. (Not counting the two births of her own children previously). No chance for muscles and ligaments to recover, and the demands on her calcium and iron reserves will mean she is vulnerable to anaemia and other problems.

‘I love giving birth. This is my seventh surrogate baby’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a5a8dbd8-4ac5-11eb-81f9-1b786036a268?shareToken=d28842dc223c6ab72da54ed188952e42

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Original poster
FannyCann · 07/08/2021 23:25

Link.

vm.tiktok.com/ZMdKBYxUg/

Although advertising for surrogacy is currently not allowed in the U.K. it is legal to advertise for egg donors. The adverts I've seen still play on variations of #bekind but I don't think there's aggressive marketing to university students in this way.

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OhHolyJesus · 07/08/2021 22:56

@FannyCann two weeks?! My god I didn't remember it being that short a time.

There's no way that is healthy, mentally or physically. You can see how it's addictive in some way and you end up only being 'valuable' or useful if pregnant.

As @FakeFruitShoot said about her friend, her fertility, her body could be useful and through using her body in this way she can feel special. (I do hope you're friend is ok Fake a friend of mine was considering it recently. She has a history of abusive relationships and a rocky childhood. I'm really worried about her, so far she has been talked out of it but I'm not sure it will last. She is very vulnerable.)

Original poster
FannyCann · 07/08/2021 22:42

@ArabellaScott TBF that podcast is from USA where young women are hounded for their eggs. We don't have that, at least not to the same extent as far as I'm aware in the U.K. , a combination of payment being capped at £750, and oversight by the HFEA give some protection I think, so I doubt women here are getting that level of guilt tripping.

Here's an advert from one surrogacy agency in the USA.

Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
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Original poster
FannyCann · 07/08/2021 22:38

Ah thanks for the link OhHolyJesus
I knew I'd seen it somewhere.

"It is unsurprising that in desperation to remain in the world of surrogacy she needs to be pregnant again so we with her family at a ‘social’ just two weeks after giving birth. Later she is constantly checking her phone when her mandatory 3 month wait period is up as she is eager to offer herself again, this time for Kitty and Jamie who she is ‘falling in love with’…”I want Jamie’s baby right now!”"

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OhHolyJesus · 07/08/2021 22:21

I think there is something like a 3 month restriction imposed by some surrogacy agencies so women who are surrogate mothers who have just given birth, cannot sign up to it too soon for another surrogate pregnancy.

I'm sure @FannyCann you have mentioned something about iron levels before on a other thread, it's not very long is it? I would say 3 months isn't long enough to take a break in between (for health reasons alone I can't imagine getting back onto the hormones and IVF whilst recovering from birth) but I remember one woman on the BBC programme really champing at the bit to get going again, as if she didn't want to return to 'normal' as surrogacy was 'her normal'.

This group have done a review of the programme, there was definitely one woman in the programme who was in her second surrogate pregnancy and the others were on their first. I want to watch it again now, but I think, FWIW, it was Gemma.

stopsurrogacynowuk.org/2021/05/31/surrogacy-in-the-media-a-review-of-bbc-threes-the-surrogates-long-read/

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2021 21:54

Women are totally gaslit to be egg donors, including that old trope about suicide "infertility is so damaging, by doing this not only will you be giving a life, you could be saving a life".

JFC. Is there a point where some body like the NHS or similar will make a comment on the absolutely heinous and poisonous misuse of suicide as a threat to try and emotionally manipulate people?

Jorrris · 07/08/2021 21:40

Thanks for that. I'll have a listen over the weekend.

Original poster
FannyCann · 07/08/2021 21:34

I'm posting this podcast from Venus Rising which I listened to a couple of days ago. Even thinking I have read and listened and learnt a lot, there is always something new to shock.
Honestly I found this whole interview jaw dropping. So many ways to be shocked! I really recommend a listen.
Women are totally gaslit to be egg donors, including that old trope about suicide "infertility is so damaging, by doing this not only will you be giving a life, you could be saving a life".

Then there are the doctors who manage to cause women who are giving up their eggs to need a trip to the emergency room every single time - they know who the doctors are and which clinics.
It's all totally unregulated with so much bad practice. (USA).

I took a look at the We Are Egg Donors site and it looks very interesting with lots of resources on it.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/venus-rising/id1481872967?i=1000515053127

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Jorrris · 07/08/2021 21:31

She will experience a great let down when it's all over and be very vulnerable to being encouraged to do it all over again soon

It doesn't bear thinking about. It's utterly heartbreaking.

Original poster
FannyCann · 07/08/2021 21:28

I'm another one who simply can't understand why anyone would agree to do this @ArabellaScott and @Jorrris
I do think there are often some quite complicated emotions around it as OhHoly said, not to mention money and massive gaslighting and guilt tripping that goes on.

OP posts:
Original poster
FannyCann · 07/08/2021 21:25

That's very sad @FakeFruitShoot
She will experience a great let down when it's all over and be very vulnerable to being encouraged to do it all over again soon. One of the women on the BBC Surrogates programme was out at meet and greets looking to be a surrogate again within a very short time of the birth of her previous one. (Sorry, I can't remember the exact timescale, less than three months I think, I suspect @OhHolyJesus will know the answer).

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Jorrris · 07/08/2021 21:00

FakeFruitShot that is so very sad.

Jorrris · 07/08/2021 20:55

A woman from this group gave a very rousing and moving speech at the picnic in London.

I saw that on YouTube. It was excellent. And very enlightening. Great to see they are up and running on twitter now.

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2021 20:51

Wow. Well, that's entirely heartbreaking.

LittleMyTopKnot · 07/08/2021 20:50

FakeFruitShot that is so sad. Surrogacy seems to have so many risks of going badly wrong.

I didn’t know much about it until I read the threads here. Now I worry for all women who agree to be surrogates, including the altruistic ones in the UK.

Your post indicates that some of them may be mentally vulnerable, even if they are not exploited in the same way as in many other countries.

FakeFruitShoot · 07/08/2021 20:45

@ArabellaScott

I have a friend who wants to be a surrogate. Basically, very few people have ever loved her. Life has not been kind and she's skint. So she can have 9 months of being special. She said her youth and fertility is one thing she does have and it would feel good to be the one being charitable for once.

I get it. I don't agree with it but I get it.

OhHolyJesus · 07/08/2021 20:41

I think it could be a number of things...

Money
Loneliness
Wanting to show how generous you are, what a nice person you are, how much you can #BeKind

...I also think it could be a great motivation for you to focus on a child in your body that 'belongs' to someone else, like you can prove to yourself and others that you are worthy of love and attention.

You might also be really broke and even the 'expenses' can take the pressure of your household finances, you basically get food and bills paid for so if you were struggling it would be a very attractive option, especially as you get to stay at home with your kids and don't have to go to 'work'. It's definitely not restricted maternity clothes and petrol for scan appointments.

That's without all the possible reasons from missing out on a solid family or childhood to 'making up for' an abortion, things like that.

The BBC Surrogates programme was really insightful when it came to the root cause of why the women engaged with it. One said she was suicidal and it 'healed' her.

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2021 20:40

I see Stop Surrogacy Now are on Twitter:

twitter.com/wombsnotforrent/status/1424067577488322562?s=12

A woman from this group gave a very rousing and moving speech at the picnic in London.

I found it particularly chilling to hear that, if I understood correctly, the UK seems to be intent on becoming the next country (out of a very short and ignominous list) to legalise commercial surrogacy.

Jorrris · 07/08/2021 20:30

Me too Arrabella.

ArabellaScott · 07/08/2021 19:53

I'm still just a bit baffled why women would choose to become a surrogate.

OhHolyJesus · 07/08/2021 19:52

Sharing this thread as it's relevant to surrogacy.

Tan France and his husband are both fathers because a woman had a baby for them, the surrogate-born baby was premature and obviously needs to be fed, and as France is using formula it's an opportunity to promote (and presumably get paid for) an expensive formula:

Tan France dismissing Breast Milk www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4314836-Tan-France-dismissing-Breast-Milk