"Mumsnet statement on moderation with regard to..."

Ah, the testicles of objectivity. Heavy, pendulous, and vulnerable when poked.

It's grim, isn't is? The expectations just keep ratcheting up and resulting in more people being fed into the plastic surgery grinder.

[”You're obviously comfortable enough to not want to take the steps one can take to change your body or the way you expect people to refer to you (she/her)]”

”I find this horrific - that any women not happy with the gender society imposes on her should mutilate her body rather than seek to change society. Why should we submit to gendered expectations/sex stereotypes?”

I absolutely agree with that last comment except I would broaden it. Why should any person who is made to feel uncomfortable in their body and/or appearance because of the stereotypes society has imposed on everyone feel forced to change themselves to fit? And how on earth is doing so seen in some quarters as being progressive?! How is it that in 2020 people feel they cannot freely express who they are as individuals without trying to conform to stereotypes associated with either sex, whether their own or not?

Surely in future we will look back and think “WTAF, people in 2020 actually felt they had to change their bodies to fit social stereotyping!”

Next, I shall be consulting the cat as to what the year's best investment opportunities may be. Also I wonder what she thinks of Boris's Brexit deal? I mean, I realize she lacks the testicles of objectivity, but still.

Jane I fucking love you sister, and I hope you and your loved ones are able to stay safe. It's just horrific.

My cat thinks I should vote for whoever seems the most likely to provide treats.

GailCindy “... and that is the foundation of my view according to my son...”

I have a girlfriend who quite happily explained recently that they vote however their husband tells them to, because reasons 🤦‍♀️

From just these two examples I would say FWR, and feminism that centres women, is still very much needed.

You're obviously comfortable enough to not want to take the steps one can take to change your body or the way you expect people to refer to you (she/her)

I find this horrific - that any women not happy with the gender society imposes on her should mutilate her body rather than seek to change society. Why should we submit to gendered expectations/sex stereotypes? Is this the world you would prefer - where these expectations are fixed and immutable, forced on girls who must submit or be drugged and cut up? Why should those stereotypes and expectations not be changed? Why should women have to fulfill the role TRAs would wish to force on them to fulfill their need to be 'validated'? And why should we happily accept being referred to as 'cis' in order to fulfill this role for them?

It is some dystopia society you are pushing!

It makes me so angry, ProdigalKitten and Janes - it makes me furious that the world leaders are just sitting around like everything's fine.

I'm scared too - and I'm about as far from Aus as it's possible to be, but about what this means for the planet, for all of us. Watching the devastation to people and animals on the news is just unbearable, so god knows what it's like for the people in the middle of it. Sending thoughts and prayers, or whatever, to you, Janes

Oh look. The mask has slipped

this seems normal

Same thing some people seem to think when lesbians get told to suck d*ck.

I'd still be hopping mad at what's going on

Denial doesn't work as a long term strategy for anyone. On climate, it gets a country on fire. On sex based rights, it disenfranchises half the population.

But I'm gonna take my fucking anger away from this thread now and try to cool down, in multiple ways.

I honestly don't understand how anyone can look at the current fires in Australia and go "yes, this seems normal, nothing climate change related to see here".

And still we come here, to try to remain grounded in the reality of what women and girls face in this shit world, and that statement of moderation hangs over us like a threat.

Not sure what GailCindy's goal is, apart from telling MNHQ on us:

YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet. I would certainly feel hostility if I were trans. Better keep those guidelines as it is before the real spew starts to unleash

Same old same old. Feminists are also being blamed for another trans death (actually killed by a man, but then we knew that)

www.womenarehuman.com/feminists-blamed-for-deadly-assault-of-trans-identified-man-by-non-binary-trans-ally/?fbclid=IwAR20AfEA74mflcn0fPH_qmZGE3VPJwHsorwpzvvfgqbzcVOCueBWDEuxRF8

Janes, bloody hell, how did I miss you were in Oz? Much good thoughts for you, and yes, even if I wasn't boiling in 42 degree heat in such a stressful geographical situation, I'd still be hopping mad at what's going on. You know you have my respect anyway, but I'm really the very last person to be telling anyone off for judicious use of 'fuck' when angry.

Prodigal

I'm in one of the safest places to be today - in a city, with urban firefighters to get on top of any grassfires that start up, and not too close to areas of expected fire spread in Greater Sydney.

And I'm fucking terrified. So god knows how the poor buggers out in the impact zones are feeling. My friend is so scared. She's trying to keep her two adopted twins with special needs calm away from home. She thinks her house will likely go by day's end.

The two things are intolerable to me. Denial of climate change - intolerable. Denial of sex - also intolerable.

I'll tell you, when the planet fucking burns and drowns, alternately, and civil society breaks down, it's women and girls whose sex will put them at the greatest risk.

Never seen that happen to a woman just out the blue some blokes jump her and beat her up. I've seen too many men get violent with their partners or exes in public.
May I suggest that if you wish to inform people of what you have and have not seen you start a separate thread instead of derailing this one.

And I'm stuck between climate deniers and sex deniers and I've fucking had enough.

It's fucking crazy

How are you doing over there, Janes? I hope you're not too near any of the fires.

It's always fascinating to me how abusive the language is from people who come hear to tell us how unkind we are, "spew" etc.

And if anyone wants to take issue with my language as 'aggression', fuck off, because half my country is on fire, a friend is in town that she 'hopes' is defendable and it's going to be fucking 42 degrees by midday. And I'm stuck between climate deniers and sex deniers and I've fucking had enough.

Such a nerve people have coming onto a feminist board and telling women off, and telling lies about the attitudes and behaviours of women here.

Do you know how much time I spend on trans positive, pro-affirmation sites, even though I consider many of the people on them to have done massive harm to my precious kids ?

ZERO. NADA. NOTHING. I don't run around telling them what terrible people they are, and how they have to change how they speak in their own spaces.

No, they are free to attempt as much parental alienation as they like, they are free to slam mothers as fucking T*Rfs who should be hung, shot, raped, they are free to reduce women's rights to fucking nothing.

And because I'm so fucking polite, I let them get on with it. I spend ZERO time harrassing and bullying them in their 'safe spaces'.

Well this is my 'safe space' where women are allowed to come fucking first, and not be threatened with violence and have sh*t talked about them to their GNC kids, and be free of bullying and coerce control around their language and their thoughts.

So fuck 'c*'s' and I mean that sincerely, and fuck 'you nasty old ladies are so mean to the kids' because one of those is fucking nuts and the other is a fucking lie.

If you goal is the safety of transpeople, go find where all the homophobic males hang out, and do some education there. it's not, though, is it, because you're here.

GailCindy As a number of people have said, the feminists here object to cis as a term with any legitimacy. We are well equipped to explain why when it is used, ask that someone not use it to refer to us, and complain via the general guidelines if that request is repeatedly ignored as it would be harrassment and not in the spirit at that point. If one poster is being abusive to another poster, that is already covered in the general guidelines, so a special set of automatically babbed terms which is arbitrarily enforced anyway, is redundant.

Does that answer your question?

But that doesn't make me see the people themselves as a bigger risk for sexual assault or violence.

Are you suggesting this is what we have said? I would like to know who said this. Because I am pretty sure it was just you, just there. Men are more violent than women. Transwomen retain their male levels of/potential for violence. NAMALT for crying out loud, but 98% sexual/violent assaults are committed by men.