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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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"Mumsnet statement on moderation with regard to..."

771 replies

RaveOnThisCrazyFeeling · 30/12/2019 17:31

@MNHQ, I am wondering if the statement sticky at the top of this section needs a new, more accurate, less misleading title.

A large part of the difficulty that women encounter in discussing these issues comes from the framing of the issue as being about 'trans rights'. This implies that feminists are arguing against the equal rights of trans people, which of course isn't the case at all. It also disregards the fact that women and their rights have any stake in the issues being discussed - it makes it all about trans people having rights, or not having rights, and to the casual, uninformed observer that reinforces the TRA narrative that women are a privileged class denying the rights of oppressed transwomen.

In fact, women are the historically and systemically disadvantaged sex class, and so ha e a very large stake in legal and social understanding of sex and gender.

Might you give some consideration to changing the thread name (and OP as appropriate) to "...discussion of sex and gender" rather than "discussion of trans rights"?

OP posts:
LangCleg · 09/01/2020 09:40

I'd say they don't moderate them, anyway. I see trans women being called men all the time on here.

Yes they do, no you don't.

But you should. Because one side of the argument says they are women; the other side says they are men. Only one side of the argument is allowed to be advanced with any clarity on this board.

Which is why the rules should be dispensed with.

OldCrone · 09/01/2020 09:30

I'd say they don't moderate them, anyway. I see trans women being called men all the time on here.

Did the post after this say that Karen White was a man and then get instantly deleted?

I've never seen posts saying TWAM being allowed to stand for more than a few minutes.

NotBadConsidering · 09/01/2020 09:24

I mean, I why does MNHQ care? Let’s imagine a discussion:

TRAs: Hey advertisers! You realise Mumsnet is a hot bed of transphobia, don’t you?

Advertisers: (concerned) Oh no, why is that?

TRAs: they allow misgendering!

Advertisers: oh no! Example?

TRAs: they allow people to call Karen White a “m*n”.

Advertisers: who’s she?

TRAs: Well...she sexually assaulted and raped a few cis women...and is a bit of a paedophile....but still! She is a woman and should be called a woman!

Advertisers: fuck off, don’t call us again.

I mean seriously? Why does MNHQ CARE that people are offended by people calling predators like Karen White exactly what they are? It’s just all sorts of fucked up. If advertisers care that Karen White is misgendered, why are MNHQ having anything to do with them?

SawingForTeens · 09/01/2020 09:22

Thank you for correctly crediting that post, SpartacusAutisticus. I had loved that post and saved it, but stupidly credited it to "Talking" only in my file. When I searched Talking in advanced search to double check before posting, it was clearly not by them.

Posted anyway.

After posting realised I should have done a phrase search as well.
Many apologies, TalkingintheDark, and as others have said, thank you for the post.

NotBadConsidering · 09/01/2020 09:08

Just to emphasise:

I’m going to make a big assumption is thinking it wasn’t actually Karen White who reported that post. So someone else has the twisted idea that a rapist and paedophile deserves to be referred to as a woman. And @MNHQ AGREES with this. Because the rules are more important than calling a rapist by the correct sex. Why?

Ereshkigal · 09/01/2020 09:06

Haven't MNHQ always maintained that we could correctly sex rapists?

HandsOffMyRights · 09/01/2020 09:02

I wondered why it had been removed (didn't get chance to see it at the time).

Case in point.

NotBadConsidering · 09/01/2020 09:00

Is there more perfect example of censorship of language that Creepster’s post being removed? It’s stated the accurate sex of paedophile rapist Karen White. Someone reported it. @MNHQ complied with that report. You couldn’t make it up 🤣😡

HandsOffMyRights · 09/01/2020 08:56

@MNHQ is there an update on our request to change the sticky so that it reflects the nature of the board - women's rights?

HandsOffMyRights · 09/01/2020 08:48

I'd say they don't moderate them, anyway. I see trans women being called men all the time on here.

If this is the case, how come you were allowed to state that then? Such obia is forbidden and you should report your own post.

JanesKettle · 09/01/2020 05:36

Come on MNHQ... we need guidelines that centre women and children and no one else

QFT

Creepster · 09/01/2020 01:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

rocketmen · 09/01/2020 01:47

I'd say they don't moderate them, anyway. I see trans women being called men all the time on here.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 08/01/2020 23:02

That is a great post, Talking.

Clymene · 08/01/2020 22:52

Excellent post @TalkingintheDark, thank you. I read it just before going to sleep last night and it was a very satisfying way to end my day. Everything I think but am not able to articulate as clearly as you do. Smile

TalkingintheDark · 08/01/2020 22:25

Thank you for that, SpartacusAutisticus. Very much appreciated. Flowers

And thanks Uncompromisingwoman and Empress too.

EmpressLesbianInChair · 08/01/2020 21:08

Talkinginthedark is responsible for the post quoted by SawingForTeens a few pages ago, all credit should go to the author.

Thanks for highlighting this, SpartacusAutisticus. Magnificent work by Talkinginthedark.

Uncompromisingwoman · 08/01/2020 20:56

Thank you for crediting that SpartacusAutisticus It's a fantastic piece.

Flowers for Talkinginthedark

Cascade220 · 08/01/2020 20:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TwistedEyeOfHorus · 08/01/2020 16:40

Yes we do, MNer2019.
Despite all the efforts being made to derail the discussion, let's get it back to the original idea: it is perfectly possible to want a discussion about gender that is not focused on the issues of trans people. Especially if you're a feminist.

Mner2019 · 08/01/2020 16:34

Late to the party (as ever) but come on MNHQ... we need guidelines that centre women and children and no one else.

Justhadathought · 08/01/2020 16:30

Justhadathought I won't post a link to the tweet because it has your deleted post in it

Thanks!

OldCrone · 08/01/2020 16:21

If you log out of twitter you should be able to see it. You don't need to be logged in to see it - I'm not on twitter.

OnlyTheTitOfTheIceberg · 08/01/2020 14:32

I went to have a nosy as I missed Just's thread(s) and I'm blocked, despite never having interacted with that person so far as I know. I assume they're using some kind of "you follow X therefore you're a naughty person" algorithm.

OldCrone · 08/01/2020 14:03

Justhadathought I won't post a link to the tweet because it has your deleted post in it and as someone else said, that might get my post deleted. You don't have to scroll down far to find it though. It was indeed posted by one of the usual suspects.

twitter.com/joss_prior

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