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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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"Mumsnet statement on moderation with regard to..."

771 replies

RaveOnThisCrazyFeeling · 30/12/2019 17:31

@MNHQ, I am wondering if the statement sticky at the top of this section needs a new, more accurate, less misleading title.

A large part of the difficulty that women encounter in discussing these issues comes from the framing of the issue as being about 'trans rights'. This implies that feminists are arguing against the equal rights of trans people, which of course isn't the case at all. It also disregards the fact that women and their rights have any stake in the issues being discussed - it makes it all about trans people having rights, or not having rights, and to the casual, uninformed observer that reinforces the TRA narrative that women are a privileged class denying the rights of oppressed transwomen.

In fact, women are the historically and systemically disadvantaged sex class, and so ha e a very large stake in legal and social understanding of sex and gender.

Might you give some consideration to changing the thread name (and OP as appropriate) to "...discussion of sex and gender" rather than "discussion of trans rights"?

OP posts:
GirlDownUnder · 09/01/2020 13:37

Here's the dog btw, because why not?. He’s awesome!

Donkey Kong - I’ve googled and mostly got it right. Here’s a ‘totally unbiased’ Hmm BBC news article.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-46961883

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/01/2020 13:36

I've kind of lost track about what snow is accusing us of doing now tbh. Too distracted by cute howling dogs and trying to puzzle out how you'd spite someone by playing old school games at them.

Ereshkigal · 09/01/2020 13:36

The woke man and his friends did it specifically because of Glinner supporting calls for the £500k National Lottery grant to Mermaids to be investigated/rescinded.

Datun · 09/01/2020 13:35

But yeah, it's feminists who taunt people with donkey comments.

🙄

Datun · 09/01/2020 13:34

I think it's because some man in America played donkey Kong, or something similar, in a 24 hour marathon, and gave all the sponsorship money to mermaids. And Glinner was outraged. So they taunted him with donkey comments.

FloralBunting · 09/01/2020 13:33

Because the marathon Donkey Kong game raised lots of donations to Mermaids. We're probably not supposed to critique Mermaids, though, or the basement dwelling gamers playing Donkey Kong in their PJs that support them. Transphobic and abusive, innit?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/01/2020 13:30

I'm confused. How would a bunch of people playing Donkey Kong spite Glinner? Does he just really hate gaming?

GirlDownUnder · 09/01/2020 13:29

Ummm the donkey thing was a TRA thing cos the only trans related donkey I remember is the Donkey Kong marathon to spite Glinner.

Do I win?

PracticallyFamous · 09/01/2020 13:29

I identified as a golden retriever when I was about five, if that helps?

(Btw I'm a FWR regular with a namechange based on the fact Glinner retweeted one of my tweets.)

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/01/2020 13:28

Here's the dog btw, because why not?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/01/2020 13:26

Also, if I were to say "I identify as a cat" in what way would that mean that I was saying trans people were cats?

FloralBunting · 09/01/2020 13:25

Careful, Kittens. snow might think you're being transphobic.

Well, there's no 'might' there, obviously.

Datun · 09/01/2020 13:25

Furthermore, many of our children identified as pets. And we know it wasn't real.

Datun · 09/01/2020 13:24

I've never seen anyone talk about identifying as a pig, pets maybe, farm animals, not so much.

And it's a legitimate comment because you cannot explain why one cannot identify is anything one likes.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/01/2020 13:23

Totally OT but I just recently found the YT channel of a bloke whose Malamute wanders around howling at every person he meets because he just really likes people. It's officially the most wholesome thing on YT, and now the comment about the thread of oddness has reminded me.

The dog makes more sense than some comments here do tbh. He's certainly friendlier.

snowblight · 09/01/2020 13:22

Today's challenge is! Find an example of a case where someone on FWR called a trans person a donkey.

Possibly not a donkey but there was a thread a while ago making sniggering comments about identifying as 'pigs' or 'dogs'. It's been deleted of course so you'll probably say it never happened.

NotBadConsidering · 09/01/2020 13:21

I remember there was a long thread that ended up discussing animals (sheep?) “baying at the moon” but it was definitely baying and not braying.

Thelnebriati · 09/01/2020 13:20

The fact that the overwhelming majority of posts that are still deleted are removed because they are abusive.

Long term feminist users on this forum have asked that either posts are not deleted, or a reason is given for deletion for exactly this reason - deleted posts are weaponised and assumed to be transphobic.

Datun · 09/01/2020 13:20

Honestly.

Here is a transwoman who uses mens' toilets. Here is a transwoman who uses women's toilets.

The transwoman shouldn't use women's toilets!

You're cherry picking your stories!!

GirlDownUnder · 09/01/2020 13:20

Ahhh ProdigalKittens I think you’ve answered my ‘why don’t you go bother Piston Heads’ question to Snow and co.... it’s cos it’s only women who need monitoring and shushing. 💡

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/01/2020 13:18

Today's challenge is! Find an example of a case where someone on FWR called a trans person a donkey.

We'll wait.

Datun · 09/01/2020 13:18

But you just can't help yourselves veering towards the former frequently on this site. The cherry-picking of negative stories,

How can you cherry pick negative stories!

Such dingbattery.

It's the very negativity of those stories that demonstrate the mechanisms we're advocating against.

Strewth.

Ereshkigal · 09/01/2020 13:17

Any chance you could answer my polite question, snow?

Is pointing out that biologically male people are male in order to discuss these legitimate concerns "deliberately being abusive and offensive for the sake of it"?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 09/01/2020 13:17

I mean, is stamp collecting not a thing any more? Toy trains? Surely there must be something that doesn't hinge on following women around shouting at them about how they haven't worded their sentence precisely as you'd like.

Ereshkigal · 09/01/2020 13:16

Though I wish there weren't so many people who'd chosen "control the words women use to a degree that comes across as downright obsessive" as theirs.

Indeed.