British woman found guilty of making up rape claims

It really bothers me how it is being reported by the press. If you catch the headline you have no idea of the story just that someone has been jailed for a false rape accusation. I didn't read the full story until later today and was so shocked compared to the snippets I'd heard/seen on headlines.

This. Have donated now I know the full story - no thanks to the headlines.

What about the rapist who was actually provably not there at the time?

My understanding is that it wasn’t the girl who named the 11 rapists- it was the man she’d consented to have sex with who did.

I lived in Cyprus for a number of years. Those saying that they would not go to Cyprus as a woman miss the point. Personally I would not recommend Cyprus as a destination for a man or a woman.

Cyprus is extremely corrupt. It is run by Greek and Russian mafia. Men I know have been threatened with their lives (think hung off cliffs by their feet) if they don't pay €x or they don't do x for the person doing it. Shot in broad daylight.

Cypriots are not used to dealing with women. When I first got there they refused to deal with me in the bank. They tried to deal with my husband, who has discalcular. Took them a year to realise I was the better option. When the bank manager did deal with me you could see it was not something he wanted to do.

I love parts of Cyprus. Your every day Greek Cypriot would do anything for anybody, and they are the nicest people on earth. I wouldn't trust an official as far as I could throw them.

Wrt this girl. If she was raped then this is an awful injustice. If she wasn't then she deserves longer. I don't know the truth. I was not there.

I was having sex with him in his hotel room, three of his friends came to the door - he said oh of course they can join in.

This particular manifestation of male sexual entitlement, in which a man treats a woman as a shareable object and not a human who might dissent, is also distressingly common amongst British sportsmen. Ched Evans being invited to "share" his teammate's ONS and the Belfast rugby rape case spring to mind. This isn't an Israeli thing, it's a male thing, specifically a male group manifestation of sexual entitlement. My hypothesis is that in their eyes, you're either wife material or a whore, and if you're judged as a whore then you're group property. (See also: rightists see women as private property of husband or father, leftists see women as public property.)

it must have been frightening and I'm glad you got away.

Both sexes need single sex provision

Many posters here agree, although this isn't the right thread. This is however the "Feminism and Women's Rights" board and we have little tolerance for WATM.

Both sexes need single sex provision and I'm not embarrassed to voice that opinion just because the focus here is on women. I care about my partner's rights too (and every other man I'm fond of).

hurt and cause injury without artificial lubricant

And TBH 12 men probably will hurt even with lube.

If they hung out as a group normally with the guy who wasn't there and she'd seen them around the resort, she may have mistakenly thought that all of them were there when in fact only some of them were there.

That could well be the case.

your few posts on FWR are very ‘what about the men’

My only other post outside of this thread (with this username, that is) is about how I believe that rights shouldn't be attained by removing rights from other groups. I stand by that 100%.

FFS 12 guys sticking their dicks in one woman is going to hurt and cause injury without artificial lubricant. Why is it so hard to grasp thst women would not agree to this?

The majority of times that women fake orgasm, it's to try to get the guy to finish because he's hurting her. One guy is enough to cause pain for many women, let alone 12.

MissMaleficent your name is noticeable and your few posts on FWR are very ‘what about the men’

Maybe your attitude towards women is what’s colouring your views on this rape.

What about the rapist who was actually provably not there at the time?

And the other 11 who were? Explain her injuries? Explain the presence of multiple men's semen on her body?

A group of over ten men gang-raped her in a hotel room. She won't have had a clear look at all of them. If they hung out as a group normally with the guy who wasn't there and she'd seen them around the resort, she may have mistakenly thought that all of them were there when in fact only some of them were there.

An honest mistake in her testimony doesn't make her a false accuser nor does it mean she wasn't raped. It might make it hard to convict her attackers, but that's a separate issue from her being unsafely convicted of false accusation.

I'm sure the previous article I read said that one of the men she accused was able to prove by a timestamped selfie that he was in bed with his girlfriend at the time she alleges he raped her. It seems odd that this isn't mentioned.

She was gang-raped by 12 men. It's possible that she may have been mistaken as to the identity of one of her attackers. Rape victims.don't sit down and draw sketches of all their attackers as soon as the rape is over, assuming that they get a clear view of them at all.

The sad thing is that either outcome is a truly horrible one - i.e. her being gang raped or maliciously accusing them.

Oh dear. For the benefit of the hard-of-thinking at the back, lying to the police is nowhere near as "horrible" as battering and gang-raping someone.

People make a lot of bad decisions about sex, including ones related to their health, or safety, or which seem unpleasant to most people. There is no way a court can come to a conclusion based on the idea that nobody chooses to do sexual things that are unsafe or unhealthy.

I think you'll find it's usually men who make reckless decisions when it comes to sex. It's men who drag non-consenting women into nightclub cleaners cupboards to dip their wicks. It's men who will pay hundreds to a "Belle Du Jour" for a couple of hours of sexual gratification. It's men who will endanger their jobs, marriages, and liberty to view child abuse images. Women do not make that kind of "bad decision".

From the female perspective, there's "bad decisions" like not using a condom, and then there's handing yourself over a gang of 12 men who may not have your best interests at heart. The latter goes so far beyond "bad decisions" as to be unthinkable for a woman outside of carefully planned and safeguarded situations.

Women have in the backs of our minds "this man might kill me" and that frames our sexual decision-making. A court system that doesn't recognise this is misogynist.

I can't believe there's a discussion of kink on this thread. Wtf

There's always someone who turns up on a rape thread and says "but some women like X therefore we shouldn't presume non-consent to X". So once again I roll my eyes and explain from my position of having been harmed by abusive men using "the scene" as a fig leaf and exited it how "but some women like X" harms all women, including the tiny proportion of women who do like X under very controlled circumstances.

Something seems off though as the other poster commented above.

What about the rapist who was actually provably not there at the time?

Oh come on ! How many women want ex with twelve men all at once outside of some porn fantasy for men? The answer is very fucking few.

But that's not event the fucking point here - THIS woman didn't - she testified that he didn't, and had injuries consistent with RAPE.

The sad thing is that either outcome is a truly horrible one - i.e. her being gang raped or maliciously accusing them.

Women do not consent to sex with that many men after a night out.

• Abrasion
• Bruising
• Tearing
• Cystitis risk
• STI risk
• Pregnancy risk
• The risk of battery all preclude any woman saying yes to 12 men at once unless lots and lots of safeguards have been put in place, which isn't the case on a night out.

What? Those things make it a bad idea, they certainly don't "preclude" it. People make a lot of bad decisions about sex, including ones related to their health, or safety, or which seem unpleasant to most people. There is no way a court can come to a conclusion based on the idea that nobody chooses to do sexual things that are unsafe or unhealthy.

I've retweeted, following #boycottcyprus or #ibelieveher on twitter leads you to the crowdfunder.

I can't believe there's a discussion of kink on this thread. Wtf

I'm sure the previous article I read said that one of the men she accused was able to prove by a timestamped selfie that he was in bed with his girlfriend at the time she alleges he raped her. It seems odd that this isn't mentioned.

At least it looks now as if Dominic Raab is going to raise the government’s concerns with the Cyprus authorities. The poor woman. Her mother says she has PTSD which seems very likely in the circumstances.

I believe her.

I have donated

Women who enjoy pain would be much safer

As would women who like being tied up as they are helpless to prevent battery and murder once the knots are tied.

bd67th - indeed, reportedly these Israeli accused have called her a whore. It formed at least part of their defence in court, I believe, and they reportedly said it after the judgement today, whilst having champagne. Reportedly.

I believe her

because of the conclusions it leads to about women who do

The conclusions I would come to about a woman who agreed to that would be that she was foolish and naive about what it would entail, the damage it would do to her body, and the lack of regard that men who would do that to her would hold her in. Men being quite happy to call women "slut" and "whore" once he's got his dick wet. No judgement about her morals, but a concern for her safety and well-being as well as worry about her lack of risk assessment.

I think what you're really worried about is the conclusions I would come to about the kind of man who would commit that kind of act. I think you're actually worried about limits being placed on men's perception of their own "bodily autonomy", which I prefer to call "sexual entitlement".

Ultimately, kink acceptance has led to women being murdered by men who keep knives under the pillow and "sex game gone wrong" being used to get a manslaughter conviction when it was premeditated, he had the knife there in advance ffs how is that not strong evidence of premeditation. Kink acceptance has led to women being hit and tied up and the court being told that she consented to that. The only people who've benefitted from kink acceptance have been violent men. Women, even those women who enjoy pain, have not benefitted from kink acceptance. Women who enjoy pain would be much safer if they knew that the police and courts would assume that being hit wasn't ever consensual, because a woman could call the police on any dom who overstepped her boundaries and he would know that.

I believe her.
I’ll donate in the morning (handbag elsewhere in the house).
And yes, it should be clear that, outside prearranged and very specific situations, women do not consent to 11 pals of their date getting sexually involved. FFS.
Also, I can’t help wondering what’s in the judge’s personal history, because that attitude is not normal.